"certified" in ISO 19011, as well as IATF required?

[doinQC]

Hi quality folks,

We have a VDA finding that claims we have to have someone "certified" in ISO 19011, as well as IATF. Ive seen where the 2 standards reference each other, but no where do I see a certification requirement for both.
As for personnel performing 2nd party audits, I see no requirement in IATF 16949 other than following ISO 19011. Am I missing something? Do 2nd party auditors have to be trained on core tools? How about internal auditors? (as long as the customers don’t require it of course).

Ive read other similar threads, but still cant find a clear answer, and they are 3-5 years old, so may be out of date. Does anyone have the "final answer" to what seems to me is an elephant in the room that the standards arent addressing?

Thank in advance

 

[Johnnymo62]

IATF16949 refers back to ISO9001, not ISO19011. Your company must be ISO9001 to have IATF16949.

ISO19011 is the "Guidelines for auditing management systems". The ISO9001/IATF16949 Lead Auditor training I went to included ISO19011.

 

[John C. Abnet]

....and, @doinQC , as @Johnnymo62 pointed out, ISO 19011 is a "guidline". Neither you nor your organization can be "certified" to ISO 19011. If your auditor is telling you that a certification to ISO 19011 is required, well, hmmmm, you may want to question who you is doing your VDA auditing.

Hope this helps.
Be well.

 

[doinQC]

That was our response exactly...customer from Hades himself!

 

[tada22689]

ISO19011 is guideline for auditing management system. ISO9001,IATF16949, ISO14001,... are the standard requirements for management systems (Quality, Enviroment...)
If you are qualified for ISO9001/IATF16949/ISO14001 auditor (such as internal auditor, 2nd party auditor...) I'm sure that in the training content will be included ISO19011.

 

[Randy]

Your customer has probably been listening to some "shake & bake" who took a lead auditor course and is now an expert in the filed. I see that garbage and tripe all the time