"certified" in ISO 19011, as well as IATF required?

#1
Hi quality folks,

We have a VDA finding that claims we have to have someone "certified" in ISO 19011, as well as IATF. Ive seen where the 2 standards reference each other, but no where do I see a certification requirement for both.
As for personnel performing 2nd party audits, I see no requirement in IATF 16949 other than following ISO 19011. Am I missing something? Do 2nd party auditors have to be trained on core tools? How about internal auditors? (as long as the customers don’t require it of course).

Ive read other similar threads, but still cant find a clear answer, and they are 3-5 years old, so may be out of date. Does anyone have the "final answer" to what seems to me is an elephant in the room that the standards arent addressing?

Thank in advance
 
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Pjservan

Involved In Discussions
#5
IATF does not require certification but does require competency of your internal auditors and has specif criteria that needs to be met. In the case for 2nd party auditors it does have a specific section: 7.2.4 Second-party auditor competency
 
#6
ISO19011 is guideline for auditing management system. ISO9001,IATF16949, ISO14001,... are the standard requirements for management systems (Quality, Enviroment...)
If you are qualified for ISO9001/IATF16949/ISO14001 auditor (such as internal auditor, 2nd party auditor...) I'm sure that in the training content will be included ISO19011.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#7
Your customer has probably been listening to some "shake & bake" who took a lead auditor course and is now an expert in the filed. I see that garbage and tripe all the time
 
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