Certified Quality Manager - Do you think the Certification name should be changed

C

Carl Keller

#41
Jennifer,

I am not trying to be a smarta$$ here, but if you live in an area where there are no quality jobs, and moving is not an option, why would you persue a career in it?

I mean, why not start taking classes in business management or engineering or whatever is available in your area rather than trying to mask your actual Quality discipline with a broader title?

Carl-
 
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J

Jim Howe

#42
jcbodie said:
Buying a certificate not needed to work for me???? I wouldn't hire anyone that way either, Karen, but I do give people credit who show some extra motivation in trying to get what added education/skills they think would make them a better asset for a company. The certification process may not be perfect and may not make someone a better Quality Manager over someone that doesn't have the certifications, but you can make the same argument about higher education in this country...just because you have a sheepskin doesn't mean you're better qualified than someone who has hands-on experience. I have to admit I take offense (and I'm sure I'm not alone) that you would claim that people who went in with strictly pure intentions of trying to better themselves through ASQ certifications, have basically "bought" their certificates. That's kinda harsh, coming from a "newbie" quality manager. I know I've worked very hard to maintain the integrity and usefulness of my credentials, whether they be ASQ certifications or IRCA certification or CEU's.
Exactly right! Personnally I never had the time to pursue certifications of any sort. Even as the Electronic Inspection Supervisor at GAC (Goodyear Aerospace) I did not hold any sort of solder certification to any specification even though I supervised 20 electronic, card carrying, inspectors. Never had time to get one.
Later as a QA Engineer in the same shop, I was routinely called by the holders of solder certifications to referree questionable solder joints. My decisions were based on common sense and were considered the final word by both GAC and Customer. In fact at one point in time I represented both the Suadi and Japanese airforces in MRB on the F15 Flight Simulators.
As I look back at it I often wondered why I never found time to acquire certifications in say Weapon Sytems or NASA specs.
Where did I learn about soldering? United States Navy! :applause:
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#43
Carl Keller said:
Jennifer,

I am not trying to be a smarta$$ here, but if you live in an area where there are no quality jobs, and moving is not an option, why would you persue a career in it?

I mean, why not start taking classes in business management or engineering or whatever is available in your area rather than trying to mask your actual Quality discipline with a broader title?

Carl-
That's actually a good question Carl, I appreciate your levity.

I've actually noticed some picking up of advertising for quality jobs. More and more, however, they are being used to describe work in non-manufacturing sectors that doesn't much align with what I am familiar with in manufacturing. These sectors, like heath care and financing, want people who are already within their sectors; like RNs. This tells me their quality systems are probably still in the development stages, or they would know that what we do can be applied to very many sectors.

My current position in public education is a new career path, but I don't feel really comfortable in a role of classroom teacher. If you could just be there...I have some pretty rough customers.

But education is a field that really needs what we do. Not in design of experiments or ANOVA, and not in the House of Quality. But there is lots of need for TQM/Baldrige principles and they could use some better problem solving skills.

Why mask my abilities? I do not think of it as masking them; I think of it as adapting them. I find myself utterly unable to wipe my head clean of them. I've tried going into the newspaper industry as a reporter, or in customer service or in circulation. I'm pretty sure I scared them during interviews. They don't understand the value of what we do yet, if they ever will.

And so now I am going incognito. I am learning interesting things about the upcoming work force. It's not your uncle's work force anymore. I will be able to market the skill in helping businesses get the most out of their employees. I can show them how to find the costs in reducing human errors and employee turnover. Is this not also related to Quality? Human performance and making good decisions?

I have four products in publishing house review, aimed at helping small businesspeople accomplish this and maintain it on their own.

And so it will take time, but in my better moments I am still pretty sure I will find a way to make a really good jug of lemonade out of this challenge. That's what life's all about! How well we play the hand we're given.
 
K

KarenD

#44
my appologies

jcbodie said:
Buying a certificate not needed to work for me???? I wouldn't hire anyone that way either, Karen, but I do give people credit who show some extra motivation in trying to get what added education/skills they think would make them a better asset for a company. The certification process may not be perfect and may not make someone a better Quality Manager over someone that doesn't have the certifications, but you can make the same argument about higher education in this country...just because you have a sheepskin doesn't mean you're better qualified than someone who has hands-on experience. I have to admit I take offense (and I'm sure I'm not alone) that you would claim that people who went in with strictly pure intentions of trying to better themselves through ASQ certifications, have basically "bought" their certificates. That's kinda harsh, coming from a "newbie" quality manager. I know I've worked very hard to maintain the integrity and usefulness of my credentials, whether they be ASQ certifications or IRCA certification or CEU's.
My appologies - I did not mean to stir up such harsh reactions. I guess I am just not an avid supporter of the ASQ - from experience (I am not new to Quality Management, I am new to the automotive industry) I have had more success with individuals with work experience matching the position I was hiring for - as opposed to just looking for the 'initials'. I admit in the past I was somewhat of an academic snob - having a higher education myself, I was inclined to hire like individuals - I still am to a certain degree. I support my staff that wish to better themselves by persuing accreditation - however, I prefer to have them get their MEng, MBA, or even an undergraduate degree or diploma if they have not already gone that route.

As I indicated in my first post - these are just my humble opinions and I did not mean to raise anyone's hackles. Please do not take my ramblings personally, again JMHO!!

Karen
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#45
I can "stick my foot in mouth" with the best of them

Emotions flare when it comes to considering how "job hirers" view the careers we have staked out for ourselves.

What happens here in the Cove is that we temporarily glimpse information normally heard in the private conversations behind closed doors.

Instead of getting angry that many (not all) job hirers now devalue degrees and designations we worked so hard to obtain, it should become one more piece of information we use as we contemplate our own futures.

For example, if ALL bosses everywhere decided overnight that they would no longer give value to a CQE (An American Society for Quality Certified Quality Engineer) designation, but would only accept the results from a similar test they administer at the time a person applies for a job, what would we do?

If we wanted to work at that kind of a job, we'd take the test and hope to pass, wouldn't we?

Actually, in my opinion, I'd rather have a clue going in to the job hunt as to what folks were looking for in the way of qualifications than to be continually snubbed without knowing why.

Just as in the spirit of the current generation of ISO Standards, we must always be "customer-centric" in adapting our processes (our lives and skill sets) to the customer's (employer's) requirements.

There is a terrible, trite phrase which covers this situation:
"Change is the only constant!"
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#46
Wes Bucey said:
Emotions flare when it comes to considering how "job hirers" view the careers we have staked out for ourselves.

What happens here in the Cove is that we temporarily glimpse information normally heard in the private conversations behind closed doors.

Instead of getting angry that many (not all) job hirers now devalue degrees and designations we worked so hard to obtain, it should become one more piece of information we use as we contemplate our own futures.

For example, if ALL bosses everywhere decided overnight that they would no longer give value to a CQE (An American Society for Quality Certified Quality Engineer) designation, but would only accept the results from a similar test they administer at the time a person applies for a job, what would we do?

If we wanted to work at that kind of a job, we'd take the test and hope to pass, wouldn't we?

Actually, in my opinion, I'd rather have a clue going in to the job hunt as to what folks were looking for in the way of qualifications than to be continually snubbed without knowing why.

Just as in the spirit of the current generation of ISO Standards, we must always be "customer-centric" in adapting our processes (our lives and skill sets) to the customer's (employer's) requirements.

There is a terrible, trite phrase which covers this situation:
"Change is the only constant!"
This is a comepetetive employment environment, and I believe the workers are often feeling the fear or stress of not measuring up, of having to justify our existence, and needing to explain ourselves just right so we will get or keep the right job.

Meanwhile, change does march on. For those of us in the current employemnt rip tides, it is hard to know how to market ourselves. We are supposed to make life plans, goals and strategies, but the labor market is changing about as fast as we can change ourselves.

It used to be that taking on certifications was admired because, like correspondence schools, it typically takes a lot of discipline and drive to succeed in those things. It's not something one can just buy. (I know an extremely bright statistics Ph.D. who took the CQE without studying for it and "got spanked". He studied and passed the next time.) It's hard to figure out if, for whom and when these efforts lost their meaning. That kind of second guessing is uncomfortable to me.

Like Wes said, as our environment changes we must also change. It's becoming a place where some of us, as I suspect is my case, will need to be very flexible and inventive indeed.

I've actually considered both options: dropping my certs altogether or certifying for Six Sigma because it is something more often recognized in current management circles. My husband, however, doesn't like the idea of going to this effort and expense--he sees it as persistant digging in an apparently dry well. :frust:
 
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