Certify to new ISO 14001 standard or stay with current standard?

drgnrider

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
From a post in Elsmar Cove thread:
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Also, it is important to remember that ISO MSS are voluntary standards, an organization may choose to stay with 14001:2004 if it decides this is in its best interest.
What is the status of the next version of ISO 14001? Page 4
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From a Q&A posted on my CBs website:
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Q:Are there any key dates that existing clients will need to meet during the transition period to the new version of ISO 14001?

A:The first of those key dates will apply to [CB] and that will be the date after which we are not allowed to issue any contracts to certify companies against the existing version of ISO 14001.

The other key date will then be the dates by which all clients must have transferred to the new version of the standard.

And the third and final key date will be the date by which all certificates against the existing version of ISO 14001 will have to be withdrawn and are no longer considered valid.
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These two seem to contradict each other. By reading the CBs comments, I must always be upgrading to the current standard. On the other hand, since nobody contradicted the comment when posted on the Cove..... I'm :confused:

Comments?
 
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Sidney Vianna

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Staff member
Admin
#3
These two seem to contradict each other. By reading the CBs comments, I must always be upgrading to the current standard. On the other hand, since nobody contradicted the comment when posted on the Cove..... I'm :confused:

Comments?
No contradiction. Any organization can voluntarily adopt any version of any standard, as they see fit. For example, if an organization wants to adequate their quality management system to ISO 9002:1987 or Mil-I-45208 A, it is their choice.

Accredited certification, on the other hand, has to be done in line with Industry supported protocols. That is why the IAF stipulates transition periods for accredited CB's to migrate the certificates they issue.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#4
In other words, if you want to stay certified you will need to transition to the latest version.

It is a little bit like buying oats. If you want the finest, you need to pay the price. If you are content with oats that have already been through the horse, they come a lot cheaper.

What level of quality management system do you want?
 

drgnrider

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
No contradiction. Any organization can voluntarily adopt any version of any standard, as they see fit. For example, if an organization wants to adequate their quality management system to ISO 9002:1987 or Mil-I-45208 A, it is their choice.
Basically, it all comes down to: if I want "accredited certification" I have to be on the current standard, otherwise I "self-certify".

:thanx:
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
If I follow the history and progression of management standards they go through a kind of cycle. One big change, such as ISO9001:2000 or the latest 2015 version, then a change to clarify terms or minor issues that doesn't really affect most organization's management system then back to a big change again.

I have a question. If the existing standard version, say ISO 9001:2008, meets your organization's needs why can't you get it certified even after the transition? Most CB auditors are experienced in standards and have worked to more than one issue of these standards. I am sure our usual auditor has been around from the ISO9001:1994 (I think) version. It can't be too hard for them to meet their customer's requirements and not that of the ISO. Although I guess it is like Apple's mobile phones, there is very little customer movement from iPhone 5 to iPhone 3 it is all one way demand.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#7
If I follow the history and progression of management standards they go through a kind of cycle. One big change, such as ISO9001:2000 or the latest 2015 version, then a change to clarify terms or minor issues that doesn't really affect most organization's management system then back to a big change again.

I have a question. If the existing standard version, say ISO 9001:2008, meets your organization's needs why can't you get it certified even after the transition? Most CB auditors are experienced in standards and have worked to more than one issue of these standards. I am sure our usual auditor has been around from the ISO9001:1994 (I think) version. It can't be too hard for them to meet their customer's requirements and not that of the ISO. Although I guess it is like Apple's mobile phones, there is very little customer movement from iPhone 5 to iPhone 3 it is all one way demand.
Once it is obsolete, there is no longer the means to get certified to it. CBs no longer have the authority to do so.
 

Sidney Vianna

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Staff member
Admin
#8
I have a question. If the existing standard version, say ISO 9001:2008, meets your organization's needs why can't you get it certified even after the transition?
But you can... as long as it is not under an IAF accreditation scheme. During the migration from ISO 9001:1994 to ISO 9001:2000, there was a little "revolt" by many registrants that threatened NOT to make the transition and let their certification lapse.

Some (accredited) CB's offered non-accredited certification to ISO 9001:1994, even after the 2003 mandatory deadline. If something similar happens in the next transition cycle, I can guarantee to you that pseudo-accredited CB's, unaccredited CB's and even duly accredited CB's might offer "continued" certification to ISO 9001:2008.

Sometimes, past behavior and results is an indication of future performance....:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

insect warfare

QA=Question Authority
Trusted Information Resource
#9
I have a question. If the existing standard version, say ISO 9001:2008, meets your organization's needs why can't you get it certified even after the transition?
Probably because (in the eyes of ISO governing bodies) it is backwards thinking. Their focus is likely not on whether a standard meets an organization's needs, but whether all applicable organizations are capable of meeting the standard's needs. Allowing a select group of organizations to cherry-pick the level of standardization they're most comfortable with (by certifying to whatever version of a standard) not only undermines the authority of the governing bodies, but also puts those organizations in the peculiar position of not supporting the ever-broadening concept of improvement, which is the fundamental reason why standards are updated.

These organizations usually fail to realize two important things: 1) that implementing the updated versions usually offer the most pathways to real benefits, and 2) that when standards are updated, they are generally in the form of improvements.

Brian :rolleyes:
 
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