Change Of Location FAIR Requirements

#1
Hi,

We have recently moved a manufacturing line to a new location. The item being manufactured is an assembly.

A LAIR was produced before the line was relocated.

It has been agreed that the detail parts that make up the assembly do not require a new FAIR, but listed on the form 1 with reference to the previous FAIR as supplied by the relevant supplier.

What is going to be added to Forms 2 and 3 is the manufacturing of the assembly at its new location.

My question is, is this a full fair, or a delta. My understanding is it is a delta because not everything within the assembly is having the fair requirements invoked. If the assembly detail items within form 1 were required to a have new FAI then this would be a full fair.

My other question is, if I can show on the FAI the relevant tracking numbers that make the items traceable, i.e manufacturing route cards are electronic, and completed by the operators as the job progresses, do I have to print these off as part of the FAI pack, is it mandatory, or agree with the customer that if required I can show them electronically.

I'm trying to keep the amount of paperwork to a minimum.

Thanks

Graham
 
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Joeem

Involved In Discussions
#2
Hi,

We have recently moved a manufacturing line to a new location. The item being manufactured is an assembly.

A LAIR was produced before the line was relocated.

It has been agreed that the detail parts that make up the assembly do not require a new FAIR, but listed on the form 1 with reference to the previous FAIR as supplied by the relevant supplier.

What is going to be added to Forms 2 and 3 is the manufacturing of the assembly at its new location.

My question is, is this a full fair, or a delta. My understanding is it is a delta because not everything within the assembly is having the fair requirements invoked. If the assembly detail items within form 1 were required to a have new FAI then this would be a full fair.

My other question is, if I can show on the FAI the relevant tracking numbers that make the items traceable, i.e manufacturing route cards are electronic, and completed by the operators as the job progresses, do I have to print these off as part of the FAI pack, is it mandatory, or agree with the customer that if required I can show them electronically.

I'm trying to keep the amount of paperwork to a minimum.

Thanks

Graham
That sounds pretty sound. Obviously you have to inspect any changes regardless. So if you can still produce the records, with good results you should be fine. A Delta.

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Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#3
My question is, is this a full fair, or a delta?
Are you compliant with AS9102? According to the AS9102 FAQ document:

Question:
If Manufacturing is moved from one location/facility to another, is a new FAI required?

Response:
9102 - 4.6.f.1 states: A change in manufacturing source(s), process(es), inspection method(s), location of manufacture, tooling or materials, that can potentially affect fit, form or function. The key wording is "potentially affect fit, form or function". If you have good rationale supporting a position that the change doesn't "potentially affect fit, form or function" (and you can convince your customer) an updated FAI is not required. The move distance isn't a factor. Record the reason for Partial FAI on field No.14 of Form 1.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Hi,

We have recently moved a manufacturing line to a new location. The item being manufactured is an assembly.

A LAIR was produced before the line was relocated.

It has been agreed that the detail parts that make up the assembly do not require a new FAIR, but listed on the form 1 with reference to the previous FAIR as supplied by the relevant supplier.

What is going to be added to Forms 2 and 3 is the manufacturing of the assembly at its new location.

My question is, is this a full fair, or a delta. My understanding is it is a delta because not everything within the assembly is having the fair requirements invoked. If the assembly detail items within form 1 were required to a have new FAI then this would be a full fair.

My other question is, if I can show on the FAI the relevant tracking numbers that make the items traceable, i.e manufacturing route cards are electronic, and completed by the operators as the job progresses, do I have to print these off as part of the FAI pack, is it mandatory, or agree with the customer that if required I can show them electronically.

I'm trying to keep the amount of paperwork to a minimum.

Thanks

Graham
you first task is to communicate with the customer and what do they need before tackling an event.

Must customers will be ok with a Delta but once again you need to communicate and keep track of the communication in case they change their minds....
 

Eredhel

Quality Manager
#5
Do the assemblies have so many components that a full 9102 FAI would just be too much? I'm thinking you'll be doing your own internal inspections that are more in depth than normal since you're switching locations. So I didn't know if it was just too big a cost to spend all that time putting all those results into 9102 forms.

We do assembly work as well but have never had to move locations so I'm asking as a learning thing for me.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
Do the assemblies have so many components that a full 9102 FAI would just be too much? I'm thinking you'll be doing your own internal inspections that are more in depth than normal since you're switching locations. So I didn't know if it was just too big a cost to spend all that time putting all those results into 9102 forms.

We do assembly work as well but have never had to move locations so I'm asking as a learning thing for me.
FYI - FAIR per 9102 are done to make sure the process is effective... however, ask your customer of their requirements and they might wave the AS9102 requirements.

and as an incentive - pass the costs of the FAIR to the customers - normal practice - once they learn how much - they will reconsider their position.
 

Eredhel

Quality Manager
#7
I may have worded my question poorly. What I meant was if they are changing locations won't the organization be doing their own internal first articles on the components of the assemblies to make sure it's all set up well? If so is it just a cost decision to not include results in the 9102, or is the organization choosing not to do their own internal full on inspections when changing locations?
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
I may have worded my question poorly. What I meant was if they are changing locations won't the organization be doing their own internal first articles on the components of the assemblies to make sure it's all set up well? If so is it just a cost decision to not include results in the 9102, or is the organization choosing not to do their own internal full on inspections when changing locations?
If the customer invokes AS9102 on the contract - then you need to comply with it (the change of location triggers that requirement - it is also the).

However, only the customer in writing can wave that requirement so it is important to get their input into the process.

Note: Suppliers did not change location so there is no need for them to issue a FAIR to you - all you have to do is to tell the customer that you will be doing a "Delta" FAIR - if they want it - and that is how much it will cost.
 
#9
I may have worded my question poorly. What I meant was if they are changing locations won't the organization be doing their own internal first articles on the components of the assemblies to make sure it's all set up well? If so is it just a cost decision to not include results in the 9102, or is the organization choosing not to do their own internal full on inspections when changing locations?
Hi thanks for you help and responses.

No we won't be doing internal FAI's on supplied components that go into the assembly. The reasoning being is nothing has changed that will affect fit, form or function. The only change for the supplier is the delivery address.

If however the customer, who I'm meeting with next week, demands a full FAI including on the supplied parts, then that becomes a different conversation, as there will be a large amount of costs involved, plus the customer has a requirement for a delivery schedule that is very tight already.

I know some may think this conversation should have been had already, which I would agree but I've only just joined the company and this project. So when people had finished giving me their "opinions" on what they thought what was required and what should be done, no one had managed to specifically get in writing "customer requirements", which is a pretty important!

Thanks

Graham
 
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