Change Starts at the Top - Who can Initiate or Develop a Paradigm Change

tony wardle

Registered Visitor
#11
Jim Wynne hit this one on the head. In fact the "ISO is a joke" thread got to me thinking on this one....... And JRKH - I fully agree with your post - yes you should do a paper on this - it could develop into a useful model that the guy who originally posted "ISO is a joke" could use to solve his problem.
Thanks
 
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bobdoering

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#12
The first thing I see would be the necessity of defining what constitutes "initiating" or "developing" or "influencing" a paradigm change in an organization.
Good point - what is more important - initiating change or implementing or completing change? Sure - it is virtually impossible to argue that change can be initiated anywhere in the organization - but if it is promptly snuffed out, does that count?

The point that change starts at the top is meant that an environment to support change has to be generated by a culture encouraged from the top. I doubt it was ever intended to mean that all change starts from the top. It can readily stop there though!
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#13
Good point - what is more important - initiating change or implementing or completing change? Sure - it is virtually impossible to argue that change can be initiated anywhere in the organization - but if it is promptly snuffed out, does that count?

The point that change starts at the top is meant that an environment to support change has to be generated by a culture encouraged from the top. I doubt it was ever intended to mean that all change starts from the top. It can readily stop there though!
Absolutely. As an addendum to my earlier post, I should say that there are times when even socratic questioning won't work. I worked for a guy once (company owner) who was so far gone that you had to see it to believe it.
I once tried to get him to contribute to a solution by asking what he thought should be done. He said, "I'm paying you to figure that stuff out." When I went ahead and did what needed to be done, he promptly undid it and told me it was a lousy idea. On another occasion he called me to his office and told me to do something. I knew that what he was asking for would lead to trouble, and tried to explain why it might not be a good idea. He said (and I'm not kidding) "I'm not paying you to think--just do what I told you to do." When I did, and it blew up, he called me in again and said, "What were you thinking?" I replied that I had just done what he'd told me to do, and he said, "You misunderstood me. Any idiot would know that won't work."

The moral is that there are some people who are hopeless, and the best thing you can do is get the hell out, which is what I did as soon as I could.
 
S

sulkinsf

#14
I am trying to keep this simple so that we can help Tony. We could define change in different ways (e.g. engineering change, policy changes, paradigm changes). Based on the symptoms I see from Tony's posts, I was going to focus on creating change through the audit system.

The department determines their suppliers, their customers, their inputs and outputs. They determine how best to improve, monitor and measure their performance. As a result this department becomes the most efficient in the company.
James,

Great! That's were I was heading. In this case, the department is the QS department. I want to focus him on one output - audits.

Based on the symptoms I see, there are complaints coming from audits. If the audits are not connecting between problems in the business and ISO solutions, then he could be creating problems.

So my question is Tony, what are the major findings from your audits? Y
our findings should be a good indicator that you are following the process approach.
 
J

JaneB

#15
Some really good points, even with horses knee deep in water :lol:

I do think that any individual can influence change of thinking which may well change the paradigm, yes. So I think it's possible for change to start from the middle, the top, the bottom, almost anywhere, and I believe strongly in the capacity of an individual to effect change, almost regardless of their position in a hierarchy.

And yes, I've been in a position where I have changed people's concept of quality and turned them from 'have to have certification' to raving fans of a good quality system.

But in any organisation, there's also the question of power and authority - who has it, who exercises it, who doesn't have it. And while it is possible in some organisations to bring about change by various methods (and yes, including Socratic questioning), there are also situations in which you could question until you were blue in the face or whatever, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference if the boss wasn't at least a functioning adult, willing to listen and think, etc etc. Unfortunately, in the other thread, I think that's the case. In that particular situation (or situations like it) I think that advising someone to 'have a go, you could bring about a change' is neither wise nor well-informed advice.

:topic:
I am trying to keep this simple so that we can help Tony.
I didn't see any evidence at all of Tony asking for help in this thread. I think he's just raising a very interesting question and encouraging a discussion on it.
 
J
#16
As a corallary to this idea of individuals intitiating and effecting change from the middle, I'd add that, the person who does the best job in whatever position they are in, is likely to be looked upon favorably and given opportunities for advancement. Such advancement can often proved them with even greater ability to influence change. Perhaps such advancement will reven result in them BECOMING Top Management.
It really all starts with the individuals attitude and work ethic.

Peace
James
 

bobdoering

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#17
I'd add that, the person who does the best job in whatever position they are in, is likely to be looked upon favorably and given opportunities for advancement.
There are two competing theories on that - pigeon hole versus Peter Principle.
 
J
#18
There are two competing theories on that - pigeon hole versus Peter Principle.
True, but I think that much depends on the character of the individual and on the character of those above him/her.
Too many variables involved to make a definative statment either direction.

Peace
James
 

bobdoering

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#19
Too many variables involved to make a definitive statement either direction.
Exactly - so it can not be assured that the person who does the best job in whatever position they are in, is likely to be looked upon favorably and given opportunities for advancement. It is nice to think that it would happen - but there is no assurance of a correlation as there are too many variables involved to make a definitive statement .
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#20
Exactly - so it can not be assured that the person who does the best job in whatever position they are in, is likely to be looked upon favorably and given opportunities for advancement. It is nice to think that it would happen - but there is no assurance of a correlation as there are too many variables involved to make a definitive statement .
Not only that, but if there's a psychopath at the top, she is likely to surround herself with people who will gleefully indulge her psychopathic behavior, and a "normal" person will probably never be promoted into a position of significant responsibility.
 
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