Changing Registrars

CanadianQA

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#1
Hi there all, Changing registrars. We are looking at upgrading from ISO9001:2015 to AS9100D. Our current registrar we have no problems with, however, the quote for registration from our current registrar is $about $6000 more expensive than another.

Is this a good reason to change registrars and if so, what are the implications of doing so? We need our ISO surveillance audit in Feb 2018, but won't be ready for AS9100D certification audit until about Sept 2018 which means that if we do decide to switch, our current one will have to do the surveillance audit, then our chosen registrar will have to come 6 months later to do the AS9100D registration audit which would then transfer our ISO to the new registrar.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
 
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Coury Ferguson

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#2
Hi there all, Changing registrars. We are looking at upgrading from ISO9001:2015 to AS9100D. Our current registrar we have no problems with, however, the quote for registration from our current registrar is $about $6000 more expensive than another.

Is this a good reason to change registrars and if so, what are the implications of doing so? We need our ISO surveillance audit in Feb 2018, but won't be ready for AS9100D certification audit until about Sept 2018 which means that if we do decide to switch, our current one will have to do the surveillance audit, then our chosen registrar will have to come 6 months later to do the AS9100D registration audit which would then transfer our ISO to the new registrar.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
My thoughts:

If your company feels that there is a need for change, then by all means change. There is nothing that requires a reason to change Registrars.

I would suggest that you have your current Registrar complete the Surveillance Audit, then when ready to use another Registrar for your AS9100 upgrade, that would be the better choice.

Remember to review your Contract with your current Registrar, and see if there is anything that would prevent you from changing (most likely not). You may be required to provide notice to your current Registrar. If you decide to change, you will need to close out any NCs, that are pending, provide the results of your surveillance audit, and make sure the "new" Registrar is accredited to perform AS9100 services.

Just my thoughts

Added: If money is your only driver then change. If your Registrar has provided good service, then why change?
 
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Sidney Vianna

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#3
Is this a good reason to change registrars and if so, what are the implications of doing so?
If you are seriously considering a change of CB's you owe to yourself at least 3-4 competitive bids, describing a clear transfer of certification scenario, so you can compare apples with apples. Travel costs, for example, can be quite significant and, many times the dollars associated with mobilization of the audit team is not quantified in advance.

Be aware that, during 2018, it will be a seller's market. Most CB's are extremely busy with all the transitions happening (ISO 9001, 14001, AS91X0 and IATF 16949), and that means that CB's have very little incentives to lower their prices at this time.

Further, as exemplified on a daily basis, in this very space, some CB's have atrocious performance in key aspects, both customer-facing processes and office support ones. So, be very careful when considering which CB's you would invite to the party. You might end up with a fiasco situation if the screening and selection process is not well executed.
 

CanadianQA

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#4
Thanks for the responses. The contract with our current CB states that we have to give written notice within so many days of an audit, so there's no real big deal there.

I've gotten 3 quotes from internationally recognized CB's and they ranged in price from $20,000 - $30,000 CAD + travel expenses. As far as customer service offered by our current provider, I'm not really sure what to say about that. We've been registered to ISO 9001:2015 for less than a year. They provided us with a quote for the registration, provided an auditor who came and did the audit and we were registered without any non conformances. They provided us with a certificate and also gave us a nice blue "ISO 9001 Registered" flag to hang on the wall. I have no other experience with CB's so I'd love to hear some comments on what I should / should not be expecting as far as customer service from a CB goes.

I did read another post on this site that stated that one fellow had his company's ISO certificate revoked by the CB after they got wind that they were being replaced. I would hate to see that happen to us... Can a CB actually do that?

As far as AS9100 CB's go, are there any looked upon any more favorably than another?

Thanks!
 

normzone

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#5
In the past I have sometimes been able to interview potential auditors, searching for someone with experience in our field and people skills. YMMV ....
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Thanks for the responses. The contract with our current CB states that we have to give written notice within so many days of an audit, so there's no real big deal there.

I've gotten 3 quotes from internationally recognized CB's and they ranged in price from $20,000 - $30,000 CAD + travel expenses. As far as customer service offered by our current provider, I'm not really sure what to say about that. We've been registered to ISO 9001:2015 for less than a year. They provided us with a quote for the registration, provided an auditor who came and did the audit and we were registered without any non conformances. They provided us with a certificate and also gave us a nice blue "ISO 9001 Registered" flag to hang on the wall. I have no other experience with CB's so I'd love to hear some comments on what I should / should not be expecting as far as customer service from a CB goes.

I did read another post on this site that stated that one fellow had his company's ISO certificate revoked by the CB after they got wind that they were being replaced. I would hate to see that happen to us... Can a CB actually do that?

As far as AS9100 CB's go, are there any looked upon any more favorably than another?

Thanks!
For a CB I want someone who is responsive, and competitive price wise. For an auditor I want tough but fair. Not someone who's going to nit pick me to death. And local is preferred - travel costs are getting to be more than the audit.
 

Sebastian

Trusted Information Resource
#7
For me 0 nonconformities is a trigger to change CB. I do not want my organization to work with auditor less competent than I am.
 

locutus

Involved In Discussions
#8
For a CB I want someone who is responsive, and competitive price wise. For an auditor I want tough but fair. Not someone who's going to nit pick me to death. And local is preferred - travel costs are getting to be more than the audit.
Agree with Golfman that my criteria for registers is 1) customer service and 2) costs. Both are getting quite equal in importance because getting those registrars that this is just a "business" as noted zero nonconformities might not really be helping your organisation. Plus this should be considered a partnership, so should select a registrar that is responsive and not a auto salesperson that once sold never hear from them again. And costs - definitely get a number of quotes because this can vary by thousands of dollars.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
For me 0 nonconformities is a trigger to change CB. I do not want my organization to work with auditor less competent than I am.
I tend to disagree with you on this. To me "0" Nonconformities would tell me that my Internal Audit Program is working well. But, that is my opinion.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#10
For me 0 nonconformities is a trigger to change CB. I do not want my organization to work with auditor less competent than I am.
I tend to disagree with you on this. To me "0" Nonconformities would tell me that my Internal Audit Program is working well. But, that is my opinion.
IMO it depends. If it was an established QMS that has had time to mature and once in a while there was an audit with zero NCs I wouldn't worry too much. I suppose there could be companies that might have an ISO 9001 compliant QMS that was effectively implemented for years, that finally decided to go for certification. Having few or no NCs in an audit of that hypothetical company would be reasonable.

With a brand new certification I have never seen one with zero NCs. In 15 years as a 3rd party auditor the closest I experienced was an audit of an organization transitioning from ISO 9001 to AS9100 whose quality manager had been a 3rd party auditor and QMS implementation consultant. They had one NC.
 
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