Choosing ISO 9001 Training and if I need the training for work

S

Siregar

#1
Hello all,

I am Siregar from Indonesia and new here. I am fresh graduate from Mechanical Engineering specializing in Quality Management. I am now searching for job in field of Quality Management. After looking the job ads, most suitable one seems as Quality Engineer but most of them specify some years of experience as requirement. Therefore, I would like to attend an ISO 9001:2008 Lead Auditor Training (5 days training) to add to my Curriculum Vitae as hopefully as an important knowledge in applying respective position.

I have some questions about the training:
1. As fresh graduate do I need the training or more specifically could the training benefit me much especially in searching job as Quality Engineer and later at work? I mean, if it is just better to attend the training after I got job as Quality Engineer?

2. I only found two options of the respective training in my country, one is from IRCA and the other is from RABQSA from Australia and both offer similar length of days of training and fee but due to my location it will be much less money I need to pay for RABQSA Training.
Does the training from one of them could make different in for example when I want to apply for a certificate as Lead Auditor?

3. Are RABQSA internationally especially in Asia pretty known since from what I read IRCA seems better known?

4. Is my knowledge (having background in Quality Management and have read only a book about ISO 9001:2008) enough to follow the Lead Auditor training?

5. What should I prepare like books I should have read before attending the Lead Auditor Training?

6. Is it worth it (the cost of the training is double of first wage of fresh quality engineer in my country) to attend the training? Can't be the courses in training learned by ourselves seeing the training price?

Thank you for all your reply and answer and sorry if the questions are too many and basic. :)
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

harry

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Welcome to the Cove

1. I am not sure about your area but in my place, course providers specifically remind you that you need to have reasonable amount of practical experience in order to get the most out of the lead auditor course. Trust me, it about practical auditing and not something that you can glean from text books.

2. You can never be a good auditor (quality, financial or others) without first having some good practical experience. My advice is to start by working in the 'trenches' before branching into auditing - if you still like it then.
 
S

Siregar

#3
Thank you, harry. I don't know exactly about the requirement but from their brochure ads for the training or from their customer service, the participants should have attended the Understanding and Implementing ISO 9001:2008's training or have understanding in ISO 9001:2008. No practical work or experience is mentioned for the requirement.

I do need input since I am new in this area and no experience at all. I will consider all input I got before deciding to join the training or not.
 
R

Randy Lefferts

#4
Hi Siregar,

Are you knowledgeable in ISO 9001:2008?

Harry was stating that you would need practical experience in order to get the most out of the training. He wasn't saying that you couldn't take the course. You will most likely not understand an element of the training or how it applies since you may not have the background and thus you may miss out on learning key concepts or how to apply them to the real world.

Here is a similar thread that may help.
 
R

rsimano

#5
Siregar,

I would recommend reading some books on ISO 9001:2008. The goal is to Understand the Standard and how it is Implemented. Once a basic understanding is gained then take the courses you feel that would benefit you. I myself have been studying toward becoming an Auditor and have the ISO 9001:2008 Lead Auditor Training course on my list of classes to take when I am competent enough in my personal understanding.

Regards,
 
S

Siregar

#6
Hi Siregar,

Are you knowledgeable in ISO 9001:2008?

Harry was stating that you would need practical experience in order to get the most out of the training. He wasn't saying that you couldn't take the course. You will most likely not understand an element of the training or how it applies since you may not have the background and thus you may miss out on learning key concepts or how to apply them to the real world.

...link removed so I can submit my post
Thank you randy for make it more clear to me and also for the link. I understand know more about the purpose of the training.

I don't know what you mean 'knowledgeable' in ISO 9001:2008. My main background is Quality Management courses I took in my study. The courses only touched a little about ISO 9001. I have read one book about ISO 9001:2008, it is about the clauses in the ISO 9001:2008 and some explanation about all clauses, but not so comprehensive I think. That's why now I am starting to read book from David Hoyle: ISO 9000 Quality Systems Handbook, and want to finish reading the book or major parts of the book before I attend the training (if I indeed register for the training).

Honestly, I am not fully sure what what specific job I am searching for. What I am sure is I prefer to work in quality management related field and for this field Quality Engineer is the job that has most ads in my country. Unfortunately almost of the ads request work experience in the respective field as of of requirements which I do not possess. Some of the job ads mentioned about knowledge in ISO 9001:2008 also as one of the requirements. So I thought that if I have attended training in ISO 9001:2008, it would benefit me in finding the job. That's why I also have read other quality management topics which company might request from job applicants like Toyota Kaizen Methods and subjects in Quality Management I have learned at the University like FMEA, SPC, QFD, etc. I also plan to learn other topics like 5s, PPAP, etc.

So, I think I want to attend the training is more about for searching for a job although I also like learning quality management stuff including ISO 9001.


Siregar,

I would recommend reading some books on ISO 9001:2008. The goal is to Understand the Standard and how it is Implemented. Once a basic understanding is gained then take the courses you feel that would benefit you. I myself have been studying toward becoming an Auditor and have the ISO 9001:2008 Lead Auditor Training course on my list of classes to take when I am competent enough in my personal understanding.

Regards,
Thank you rsimano. Yes, I plan to read other books. The first one is from David Hoyle as I mentioned above.
 

harry

Trusted Information Resource
#7
So, I think I want to attend the training is more about for searching for a job although I also like learning quality management stuff including ISO 9001.
Start with a basic introduction course such as "Understanding ISO 9001" - this should meet requirements of companies looking for people with some basic knowledge on the subject.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
Hello all,

I am Siregar from Indonesia and new here. I am fresh graduate from Mechanical Engineering specializing in Quality Management. I am now searching for job in field of Quality Management. After looking the job ads, most suitable one seems as Quality Engineer but most of them specify some years of experience as requirement. Therefore, I would like to attend an ISO 9001:2008 Lead Auditor Training (5 days training) to add to my Curriculum Vitae as hopefully as an important knowledge in applying respective position.

I have some questions about the training:
1. As fresh graduate do I need the training or more specifically could the training benefit me much especially in searching job as Quality Engineer and later at work? I mean, if it is just better to attend the training after I got job as Quality Engineer?

2. I only found two options of the respective training in my country, one is from IRCA and the other is from RABQSA from Australia and both offer similar length of days of training and fee but due to my location it will be much less money I need to pay for RABQSA Training.
Does the training from one of them could make different in for example when I want to apply for a certificate as Lead Auditor?

3. Are RABQSA internationally especially in Asia pretty known since from what I read IRCA seems better known?

4. Is my knowledge (having background in Quality Management and have read only a book about ISO 9001:2008) enough to follow the Lead Auditor training?

5. What should I prepare like books I should have read before attending the Lead Auditor Training?

6. Is it worth it (the cost of the training is double of first wage of fresh quality engineer in my country) to attend the training? Can't be the courses in training learned by ourselves seeing the training price?

Thank you for all your reply and answer and sorry if the questions are too many and basic. :)
Siregar,

Be careful. Your certified lead auditor course may not train you and test you in what you need to be a competent auditor of process-based management systems.

As a Mechanical Engineer specializing in Quality Management you may not understand how organizations work as systems. Without this understanding you will find it very difficult to envisage the development of a management system per clause 4.1.

Indeed, your course may not include any training in the development of process-based management systems.

Unless you understand process-based management systems, and the many interactions within such systems, you may learn what the standard specifies and only be able to conduct clause-by-clause elemental audits.

Elemental auditors without a deep understanding of the process approach are fast disappearing if not already gone from our noble profession (if audit even is a profession).

You should also study business management, including finance and business psychology. For finance start with the book by Crosby "Quality is Free".

Good luck,

John
 
Last edited:
K

KBYoung

#9
Rather than getting certified as a lead auditor for ISO 9001, start out with a basic ISO 19011 course on auditting. Read up on that standard, let me know what you thing.:notme:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M Choosing Auditors - ISO 9001 / ISO 27001 (UK) IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 2
E Choosing an ISO 9001 registrar with auditors familiar with our industry Registrars and Notified Bodies 10
Q Choosing between ISO 9001 (2015) & TL 9000 certifications ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
J Choosing the Best Standard - ISO 9001 or ISO 13485 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 14
S Help needed in choosing the method of calculating the minimum sample size Internal Auditing 12
T Choosing a Notified Body for MDR - SGS/BSI/DNV/DQS-MED Registrars and Notified Bodies 0
E Choosing correct MOPs IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 2
Q Choosing Nonconformities to Report ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 26
C Quantifying risk in choosing the number of parts, operators and replicates in a GR&R Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
Q Old products new class - Dental Devices - Choosing tests EU Medical Device Regulations 2
T AS9100D - Scope of QMS for New Company - Only Choosing a Function Subset Due to Management AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
M Dilemma about choosing the most applicable clause related to Risk ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 19
J Choosing QMS Software for Aerospace Company Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 5
B Choosing not to calibrate (IATF 16949) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
H On choosing touchscreen displays and ensuring IEC 60601 compliance IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 6
Q Choosing In-Process Inspection Characteristics Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 7
L Choosing the correct Distribution for Acceptance Sampling Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 19
S Choosing a suitable type of Elisa to Test my Sample Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 3
S Choosing the correct Elisa Test Food Safety - ISO 22000, HACCP (21 CFR 120) 1
K Choosing a Six Sigma training organization Six Sigma 4
H Choosing between RABQSA Lead Auditor or ASQ CQA Certification Professional Certifications and Degrees 2
S CE Marking choosing between module A, B CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 2
A Getting Stuck Choosing a Sampling Plan Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
M Choosing the right Industry Financial Report Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
M Advice for choosing Rechargeable Lithium Batteries to be used in a Medical Device Other Medical Device Related Standards 16
L Choosing a Statistical Test for dissertation results! Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 4
I Choosing a X-Ray Fluorescence Measuring Device for Chrome Coating Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 5
B Choosing Inspection Level and AQL AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 1
I Choosing the alpha level in an ANOVA Study Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 3
M Tolerance vs. Study Variation - Choosing the right one Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
S Choosing a Higher EER Air Conditioner After Work and Weekend Discussion Topics 7
T Choosing a Mentor Career and Occupation Discussions 3
K Selection Criteria for choosing a Management Representative for QMS ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
A Choosing Document Control Software Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 13
S Choosing Parts for Attribute MSA (Measurement System Analysis) in 4th Edition, pg 132 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
C Difference between softwares in choosing correct Taguchi designs Using Minitab Software 16
bio_subbu Choosing a laboratory for biocompatibility test ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 8
M Choosing a Laser Micrometer - Your recommendations? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 8
G Short TQM training - Choosing of most important points Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 3
B Choosing number of subgroups and subgroup size Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 4
D Choosing a Vision System - Recommendations for a User Friendlier System Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 3
D Need Help on choosing dimensional standards / equipment General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 2
J Choosing Samples for Gage R&R - Randomly picked samples show very little variation Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 13
Tim Folkerts DOE: Choosing a Design - Factors that affect the choice of design The Reading Room 0
B ISO10012:2003 Question - Choosing or assessing the capability of a piece of equipment Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 1
G Choosing a Sampling plan for Start Up Fabless IC Company - Guarantee a 200 DPM limit Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 9
gard2372 Choosing between a Small Company or a Large Company Career and Occupation Discussions 17
D Choosing a notified body for a new start up company in the UK - Medical Device area Registrars and Notified Bodies 6
G Choosing Supplier Evaluation Methods - Determining what a Critical Supplier is Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 31
Steve Prevette Choosing Performance Indicators Registered Visitor Articles Archive 0

Similar threads

Top Bottom