Circular vs. Linear - We look at systems the wrong way

Elsmar Forum Sponsor
A

Andy Bassett

#12
Im afraid all this stuff about systems drives me a little crazy. Either i read too much or too little into it.

Peter Senge pushed me over the edge i am afraid. I read the complete book and never derived an ounce of use from it (i know, Im a Philistine).

My favourite party trick whenever somebody start to expound about Peter Senge is too ask 'Ahh very interesting, can you remember exactly what the fifth discipline is...' and it seems that i am not the only Philistine.

Anybody want to try and sell Peter Senge to me.

------------------
Andy B
 
A

Alan Cotterell

#14
I think the most uncomforting thing about systems thinking is our inability to see the big picture. If you have a look at some of Escher's drawings, you will see perpetual motion, water flowing continually downhill in circles, and monks walking continually uphill in circles. We cannot concentrate on two parts of the picture at once, and I suggest the same applies to management systems. When thinking about quality we tend to follow a linear process without recognising the concurrent requirements of the other parts of the system (safety, environment, security) and the tradeoffs which must occur. It helps to be able to think laterally, and sometimes take a big step backwards.
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#15
Hello Allan,

For me, anyway, Systems Thinking is the Big Picture. Many subsystems make up the 'big picture' and viewing them independently is the problem under linear thinking. The systems are interrelated, dependent on each other. Correlations exist, and sometimes not directly, but influencing one has impact on another or others. This speaks to your point of having a concurrent approach to system optimization. Working to optimize the Big Picture requires careful understanding and manipulation of multiple subsystems. Knowledge of the System (Big Picture) is key and having the correct Theory. This is a difficult objective, and why, IMHO, many organizations abandon this theory. It takes too much work and results aren't instant. Many organizations focus on the Short Term successes.

Linear thinking leads to suboptimization of subsystems. It lacks the Big Picture understanding required for organizational success. As Deming is careful to point out, precise optimization is not necessary nor desireable. In short, perfection isn't necessary to achieve good organizational success, nor profitable.

Regards,

Kevin
 
A

AJPaton

#16
Wait a second. You've forgotten that there's more than two dimensions in this equation.
The interrelationship between the organization, shareholders, customer and community is an on-going process, and time should be factored in. Future profits, promising future products for the customer, or future benefits for the community might be causes for short term loss of optimization.
That's one of the reasons behind communities giving tax breaks to large corporations.
Looking to the future,
AJP
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#17
Originally posted by Alan Cotterell:

I think the most uncomforting thing about systems thinking is our inability to see the big picture.
I emphatically disagree. Quite the contrary - systems thinking allows one to see the 'big picture'.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#19
GM refused air bags for years citing cost while customers clamored for air bags. Yes - GM did eventually see that they were losing market share because people were increasingly shopping with safety in mind. My opinion is it should not have taken GM's customers crying for air bags for them to embrace them. GM is no company to talk about customer satisfaction - it talks bottom line.

I don't have a problem with a company trying to please customers - to do what a customer requests. What comes into play is real life.

But - how far do you go? If I sell to 10,000 companies and one little guy who commands a whopping 0.5% of my business wants me to change something, should I do it? Let's say they request QS-9000 registration. Pretty expensive if only that customer wants it.

Intel told the automotive folks to go smoke one because they had no intention of doing the QS-9000 dance. Motorola said OK - and they also used their QS-9000 project to take a serious, focused look at their quality (business) systems. Harley-Davidson did the ISO dance, after rejecting it for a number of years, only because Germany sent them a letter telling them they could no longer sell their motorcycles in Germany without being ISO9001 registered.

Comments???
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
D "Circular Thinking vs Linear Thinking" - Your Thoughts? The Reading Room 13
M Informational US FDA – Ethicon Recalls Circular Staplers for Insufficient Firing and Failure to Completely Form Staples Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
W FAA Advisory Circular (AC) Requirements (FAA AC 00-56) - Internal Audits AS9100, IAQG 9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements 4
optomist1 Circular Runout vs. Total Runout Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
optomist1 Circular or Total Runout Gears and Splines? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
D Using a CMM for Confirming Circular or Total Runout?? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
K I’m looking for a square probe for my linear height gauge Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
Q Acceptable calibration accuracy of a 60" linear measuring device General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 16
T Linear Measurement - Radius Center or Intersection Point? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
P Basic Minitab Help - It's about Linear Regression Using Minitab Software 1
S IEC 60601-2-27: What does "linear within ±20% of the full scale output" mean? IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 6
B Linearity study on a non-linear gage General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 7
C Accuracy Equation - Linear gage with a stated accuracy of (1.5+L/50) ?m L= mm General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
E How does Non-Linear UUT affect TAR (Test Accuracy Ratio) Calculation? Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 3
G Laser Precision Linear Measurement - Inherrent Accuracy of 10 -6 - Nice PDF Paper General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
W Zero setting of correlation graph when plotting best fit linear regression Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 7
G Minitab GLM (General Linear Model) - Problem with recognition of Level Using Minitab Software 1
W General Linear Model - Formatting Data Six Sigma 3
N Linear Regression Formula with Four Variables to a Power Regression Formula Using Minitab Software 2
Ronen E Ethicon recalls some ECHELON 60 ENDOPATH? STAPLER Endoscopic Linear Cutter lots Other Medical Device and Orthopedic Related Topics 0
S How to interpret a Linear Regression in Minitab? Using Minitab Software 3
M Attribute GLM (Generalized Linear Models) with Minitab Using Minitab Software 4
C Degrees of Freedom with Linear Regression - Pressure Sensor Uncertainty Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 15
S Interpreting Linear Regression Results from Minitab Using Minitab Software 15
C Sample Size: Why are Sample Sizes not Linear according to the Lot Size? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
S How to overload a linear transformer with multiple protective devices IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 12
M Uncertainty a Angle using Linear Height (goniometer) Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 2
D NLEC (Non-Linear Error Correction) vs. SLEC (Segmented Linear) Calibration Technique Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 3
W Discrete vs. Continuous Variables and Linear Regression. Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 7
S How to represent interactions in non-linear regression analysis in Minitab Using Minitab Software 5
A Linear Least Squares in Minitab Using Minitab Software 2
S Regression testing / Linear Analysis - Can you use dates in regression models? Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 5
D How do I measure Pounds per Linear Inch (PLI) of a Continuous Wire? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
S Display confidence intervals for non-linear relationship Using Minitab Software 4
M Appropriate Retention Periods - Digital linacs (linear accelerators) Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 4
G Count By Weight Scale - Calibration within specification, but not linear General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 8
P Find the best fit of data: linear or quadratic Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 4
C Every problem in world has linear regression equation ?!!?? Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 9
S Measurement Uncertainity of Linear Measuring Equipment General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
J Linear measuring device that can accurately measure 0.00001 or better - Suggestions? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 10
M Linear Regression: What should be the appropriate value for R2 (R-Squared) parameter? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
G Document Format - Flow Charts vs. Strictly Linear Text for Procedures Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 4
N EU MDR - Applicability Article 22 Systems and Procedure Packs CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 0
K Best Measurement Systems Demos in California? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
Bev D Verification and Validation of Measurement Systems Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 0
M Risk and Corrective actions - Currently no FMEA's - Car systems Risk Management Principles and Generic Guidelines 8
R MDR Article 22: Systems and procedure packs Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 12
M Informational US FDA Final Guidance – Intravascular Catheters, Wires, and Delivery Systems with Lubricious Coatings – Labeling Considerations Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
D Why are pharma companies automating QMS systems? Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 2
Ajit Basrur FDA News Harmonizing and Modernizing Regulation of Medical Device Quality Systems US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 18
Similar threads


















































Top Bottom