Clarification of Applicability of TS 16949 Requirements to a Non-Automotive Business

#1
Hello Everyone,

This is my first post here, however I have been a member for many years. I am glad the cove is back.

I am hoping I can get some clarification from one of the many subject matter experts that frequent these forums.


I am the QM for a Tier 1 supplier to GM. Within the structure of the organization we manufacture both "Automotive" and "Non-Automotive" as defined in the IATF Rules 4th Edition Section 1.0

Issue:
We recently underwent our surveillance Audit #1 and our CB Auditor mentioned that TS 16949 requirements apply to all product (Automotive and Non-Automotive) manufactured in our facility because we do not separate the Automotive Business portion with solid barriers.

My question is: Where can I get clarification on where that requirement is coming from? The Auditor points to the IATF Rules book section 5.2 (h). My organization is in full agreement of that particular requirement but for determination of Audit days only. The requirement is not clear as to the applicability of the TS16949 specific requirements for the non-automotive business.

Can anyone help clarify this for me and if there is a requirement, where is the requirement come from?

Thank you,
 
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Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Re: Clarification of Applicability of TS 16949 Requirements to Non-Automotive Busines

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post here, however I have been a member for many years. I am glad the cove is back.

I am hoping I can get some clarification from one of the many subject matter experts that frequent these forums.


I am the QM for a Tier 1 supplier to GM. Within the structure of the organization we manufacture both "Automotive" and "Non-Automotive" as defined in the IATF Rules 4th Edition Section 1.0

Issue:
We recently underwent our surveillance Audit #1 and our CB Auditor mentioned that TS 16949 requirements apply to all product (Automotive and Non-Automotive) manufactured in our facility because we do not separate the Automotive Business portion with solid barriers.

My question is: Where can I get clarification on where that requirement is coming from? The Auditor points to the IATF Rules book section 5.2 (h). My organization is in full agreement of that particular requirement but for determination of Audit days only. The requirement is not clear as to the applicability of the TS16949 specific requirements for the non-automotive business.

Can anyone help clarify this for me and if there is a requirement, where is the requirement come from?

Thank you,
If your auditor is claiming that all of your non-automotive product is subject to TS audit requirements, he/she is wrong. Look at the eligibility requirements -- only production/service parts supplied to automotive customers are eligible. In fact, for us our auditors will not even look at non-automotive parts. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. And thank God. With the nonsense that has become TS, application to non-automotive parts would grind our operation to a halt.
 
#3
Re: Clarification of Applicability of TS 16949 Requirements to Non-Automotive Busines

If your auditor is claiming that all of your non-automotive product is subject to TS audit requirements, he/she is wrong. Look at the eligibility requirements -- only production/service parts supplied to automotive customers are eligible. In fact, for us our auditors will not even look at non-automotive parts. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. And thank God. With the nonsense that has become TS, application to non-automotive parts would grind our operation to a halt.
Thanks for the reply golfman25. I agree 100% with you. I was looking to see anyone else out there had a similar situation. The auditor stated that the Focus of the audit will be automotive business however since we do not physically separate the automotive from non-automotive, everything is up for grabs.
 

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Re: Clarification of Applicability of TS 16949 Requirements to Non-Automotive Busines

IATF Rule 4 specifies applicability of TS 16949 registration.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#5
Re: Clarification of Applicability of TS 16949 Requirements to Non-Automotive Busines

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post here, however I have been a member for many years. I am glad the cove is back.

I am hoping I can get some clarification from one of the many subject matter experts that frequent these forums.


I am the QM for a Tier 1 supplier to GM. Within the structure of the organization we manufacture both "Automotive" and "Non-Automotive" as defined in the IATF Rules 4th Edition Section 1.0

Issue:
We recently underwent our surveillance Audit #1 and our CB Auditor mentioned that TS 16949 requirements apply to all product (Automotive and Non-Automotive) manufactured in our facility because we do not separate the Automotive Business portion with solid barriers.

My question is: Where can I get clarification on where that requirement is coming from? The Auditor points to the IATF Rules book section 5.2 (h). My organization is in full agreement of that particular requirement but for determination of Audit days only. The requirement is not clear as to the applicability of the TS16949 specific requirements for the non-automotive business.

Can anyone help clarify this for me and if there is a requirement, where is the requirement come from?

Thank you,
What the rules say is that the headcount for the whole facility applies to calculate the audit days. The auditor should still only look at processes that affect the automotive products.

If the production lines and personnel for automotive product were physically separated, you could ask for a reduction in audit days.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#7
Re: Clarification of Applicability of TS 16949 Requirements to Non-Automotive Busines

LUV-d-4RUM, I am not familiar with AIOB Rule 4, could you refer a link to that rule?
I think that LUV-d-4RUM means the IATF Rules for achieving and maintaining IATF recognition 4th edition - frequently abbreviated to Rules 4th ed.

The document itself is copyrighted, but the IATF has published a "client" version with relevant information for organizations being audited. You can find a copy at their website here: http :// www. iatfglobaloversight.org /docs/ Rules 4th clients requirements 2014 01 28 Final.pdf - DEAD LINK TO THE FILE DISASSOCIATED.

Look at clause 5.2.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Re: Clarification of Applicability of TS 16949 Requirements to Non-Automotive Busines

Thanks for the reply golfman25. I agree 100% with you. I was looking to see anyone else out there had a similar situation. The auditor stated that the Focus of the audit will be automotive business however since we do not physically separate the automotive from non-automotive, everything is up for grabs.
Obviously there are certain areas which may apply across the board. For example, calibration -- would be difficult to separate out between auto and non-auto. Preventive maintenance might be another. Training as well. Etc. A lot might depend on what you make and how.

What he should not do is pick a non-auto part and ask to see the control plan and PPAP docs. You would have no reason to have them. Good luck.
 

QualitySpirit

Involved In Discussions
#9
Re: Clarification of Applicability of TS 16949 Requirements to Non-Automotive Busines

Obviously there are certain areas which may apply across the board. For example, calibration -- would be difficult to separate out between auto and non-auto. Preventive maintenance might be another. Training as well. Etc. A lot might depend on what you make and how.

What he should not do is pick a non-auto part and ask to see the control plan and PPAP docs. You would have no reason to have them. Good luck.
Hello, IATF rules 5.2h only requires separation at "manufacturing process", calibration, maintenance can be mixed but all auto & non auto headcounts need to be included as a ratio of auto and non auto (it is in sanctioned interpretation to rules 4th).
 

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
Re: Clarification of Applicability of TS 16949 Requirements to Non-Automotive Busines

Obviously there are certain areas which may apply across the board. For example, calibration -- would be difficult to separate out between auto and non-auto. Preventive maintenance might be another. Training as well. Etc. A lot might depend on what you make and how.

What he should not do is pick a non-auto part and ask to see the control plan and PPAP docs. You would have no reason to have them. Good luck.
It all depends on the clarity of the scope. Our auditors do not ask for PPAP documents of products that are not in the scope of TS16949.
 
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