Clarification Requested in 6.2.2

dubrizo

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#1
"When planning how to achieve its quality objectives, the organization shall determine:... when it will be completed"

Seems straight forward enough... When do you plan to achieve the objective's results.

Am I missing anything or am I overthinking this?

Thanks!
 
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Sidney Vianna

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#2
Re: Clarification Requested: 6.2.2d

The "when completed" refers to the actions/activities you plan to undertake towards the accomplishment of the objectives, in my opinion.
 

somashekar

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#3
"When planning how to achieve its quality objectives, the organization shall determine:... when it will be completed"

Seems straight forward enough... When do you plan to achieve the objective's results.

Am I missing anything or am I overthinking this?

Thanks!
Its straight forward. You determine upfront how long it would take to achieve (weeks / months) and then work towards achieving the set objective within the time target.
Of course, you have a choice to extend the timeline, as its all your decision. But a well thought over timeline IMHO is almost always achievable.
 

Ninja

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#4
Going back a couple terminology generations...it is simply asking for a S.M.A.R.T. goal.
Your question is just about the "T" part.
Handle it just like a goal set for an employee...when do you think it will be done?
 

howste

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#5
When do you plan to achieve the objective's results.
The "when completed" refers to the actions/activities you plan to undertake towards the accomplishment of the objectives, in my opinion.
There seem to be two opinions in this thread. It is either:
- when the objective is achieved, or
- when the action is completed

I've been interpreting this clause to be about when the actions are completed as Sidney said. The standard uses the word "it" in a clause where there are two things that could be "it." My logic was that the list was a progression starting with identifying actions to take, assigning resources for the actions, assigning action owners, and ending with completion of the actions and verifying their effectiveness.

Now that I've seen an alternate interpretation, I'd be interested to hear an explanation/justification for why "when it will be completed" is talking about the achievement of the objectives, not the actions.
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#6
There seem to be two opinions in this thread. It is either:
- when the objective is achieved, or
- when the action is completed

I've been interpreting this clause to be about when the actions are completed as Sidney said. The standard uses the word "it" in a clause where there are two things that could be "it." My logic was that the list was a progression starting with identifying actions to take, assigning resources for the actions, assigning action owners, and ending with completion of the actions and verifying their effectiveness.

Now that I've seen an alternate interpretation, I'd be interested to hear an explanation/justification for why "when it will be completed" is talking about the achievement of the objectives, not the actions.
Can it not be both? I do like having that third option. :cool:

Let's say the objective is to "Improve Customer Experience by 10% by the end of the fiscal year."

And my plan includes:
  1. Develop survey with focused questions by XXX.
  2. Send survey to top 20 Customers by XXX.
  3. 3. Analyze and present survey results to senior management by XXX.

The organization could complete all of the planned actions, but Customer Experience may not improve. Why? It's a poor plan. At no point do I address identifying current results, or why the organization is achieving those less-than-desired results. My plan does not focus on implementing actions that will actually improve the overall experience of the Customer, but rather just measuring how happy they are.

To add to Ninja's point about SMART goals, plans also need to be SMART.
 

Sidney Vianna

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#7
My logic was that the list was a progression starting with identifying actions to take, assigning resources for the actions, assigning action owners, and ending with completion of the actions and verifying their effectiveness.
Great minds think alike :agree:
That seems to be the most logical line of thought. 6.2.2 d) is a step in a sequence of planning steps. Obviously having a sensible target date or time frame for reaching an objective is important, but 6.2.2 refers to the planning necessary to make the objective a reality.
 

Ninja

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#8
Good clarifying points above.

Purpose (the goal you are trying to achieve...)
Plan (determining in advance the actions you will take to achieve it...)
Progress (taking the actions toward the goal...)
"T" is when you expect to harvest the Peaches...

Purpose (goal) and Progress (actions) are indeed two different things...or one overall thing...all depends how fine you want to slice it that day.
Today is an "its all the same thing" day for me.
 
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