Clarifications on Lists, Logs and Registers

S

sharat_m

#11
Further clarifications

My sincere thanks to all who have taken time to discuss this issue.

To make myself clear on the type of document control system we are following:

* All documents and records are created using MS Word.
Email approvals for documents are maintained.
* The master lists are stored in MS Word format.

Question: The Master list of Quality records get updated almost every day. Since most of you have identified this list as a document, Should there be a review and approval of the Master list everyday?

* The Tracking sheet, logs and registers are stored in seperate MS Excel files. There is no form to store the contents of the log or register. There are columns designated in the MS Excel file to store the form data. Therefore one MS Excel file gets changed/updated almost everyday.

Question: Should the MS Excel file be treated a document with review and approval?

Sharat .M
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#12
I expected some differences of opinion here. :D It all depends on how you set your system up.

Sharat, that sounds pretty much like our situation, which is also the reason to why we consider the master lists to be records. We have procedures describing how we handle control of documents and records, but the lists are not in the procedures. Instead they point to databases containing the lists.

Thus we consider each procedure a document and the databases to be records. It works for us, but as a well known Cove dweller says: One size does not fit all.

/Claes
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
Claes Gefvenberg said:
I expected some differences of opinion here. :D It all depends on how you set your system up.

Sharat, that sounds pretty much like our situation, which is also the reason to why we consider the master lists to be records.
. . .
It works for us, but as a well known Cove dweller says: One size does not fit all.
/Claes
Claes has opened my eyes a little.
I wrote:
". . . extent that the two items he lists as documents because they are subject to revision is a fair statement."

Which I now retract, given more of your details. I change my vote to RECORD. I was inserting my own company's use of "Master List" which is different from yours (Nasty habit, that A-S-S-U-M-E.) The way you describe your Master List is like it is one of several hard copy cross-indexes which just describes the content of your files by name, number, title, etc.. Since it is generated electronically, it can therefore be sorted on the various fields, just like any database. To categorize it as a document subject to revision is like saying the directory of your computer is a document subject to revision.
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#14
sharat_m said:
The Master list of Quality records get updated almost every day. Since most of you have identified this list as a document, Should there be a review and approval of the Master list everyday?
I'm a little confused. :confused: Why does your Master List of Quality Records get updated almost daily? Ours has not really changed in well-over one year...excluding our whole fiasco with Sales (but that's a separate story).

But my System may have something simliar to your System. We have Nonconformance Reports generated for everything from poor product quality, unscheduled downtime, Internal/External Audit findings, payroll errors, etc. For every report created, an entry is made into the Nonconformance Log. Unfortunately, there are times that there are additions to the Log on an almost daily basis.

However, the Log's template - the blank version of it - is a form. The Log with the data on it is the record. But no one is required to approve it on a daily basis. The people who use it are trained on how to use it properly...and once a month, I go in an just verify that is being documented as it should be.

Who enters data into, reviews, and approves your Master List of Quality Records? Is it really necessary? If you have multiple people entering information into it, perhaps stating that they are trained on how to properly use the Master List is sufficient? Having the format (i.e., the template) may be all that requires actual approval? JMHO.
 
S

sharat_m

#15
RCBeyette said:
I'm a little confused. :confused: Why does your Master List of Quality Records get updated almost daily?
An example:

We have project that has tasks that complete almost every day. These tasks under testing. Each tested task has a Test case execution report. This report is a record. Therefore, the Master List of Records needs to be updated by adding this report into the list.

This will be a tedious task if the Master list requires review and approval every day.

Sharat .M
 
R

Rob Nix

#16
My Goodness! My take on "Master Lists" is they show all of the TYPES of records, instructions, procedures, etc. that you utilize, NOT every INDIVIDUAL record or report.

If you must keep a running tab on each report, that in itself would be a log, or running record; not subject to the same controls as a "master list".
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#17
Rob Nix said:
My Goodness! My take on "Master Lists" is they show all of the TYPES of records, instructions, procedures, etc. that you utilize, NOT every INDIVIDUAL record or report.

If you must keep a running tab on each report, that in itself would be a log, or running record; not subject to the same controls as a "master list".
This is what I was thinking also. Our Record Retention List states the name and document number of the form. For example: Our form for final inspection is denoted on the list and it states where and how they are maintained. I do not add "Job #123 Final Inspection Report" to the list every time we generate a final inspection report. For the type of records that do not have document numbers the list simply says "Outside Calibration Certs" or "Customer Requirements Correspondance".
 
#18
My take is that documents are used as inputs to the job. That is why they must be controlled, to ensure the information is valid. Records are an output of a job, and hence, are usually not subject to change. In many cases one activity's record becomes another activity's document.

In the case of a Master List, we begin by looking at its function. I use the Master List to ensure my document is valid. Because I use the Master List, it is a document. The Master List also contains a historical record of my documents. Therefore, it is also a record. Because document control is more critical than record control, then the Master List would be treated as a document.
 
S

sharat_m

#19
Rob Nix said:
My Goodness! My take on "Master Lists" is they show all of the TYPES of records, instructions, procedures, etc. that you utilize, NOT every INDIVIDUAL record or report.
This is good news for me. I feel this is more sensible. Therefore for each log of records maintained, an entry for each log requires to be updated in the Master list of records.

Sharat .M
 
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