Classification of Nonconformance - Project Extended without Contract Revision

[pratapkrg - 2003]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum. this is my First post.

i am working for iso 9001 2000 certified software developement company. During the one of our recent Internal Audits the following things were observed.

Project Initiation Note says Expected Project end date is 31-Dec-2003.


The Statement of Work(Contract) also says the Project end date is 31-Dec-2003 and this is a service project(Data conversion).


But contract got extended and the project is continuing.
but when auditing the auditee is not able to show the latest Statement Of Work(Contract) or any evidence to show that the Project is extended.


My question is

What is the clause(ISO) under which this NC can be classified.

Thanks in advance
Pratap Kumar Gogineni

 

[Tom Harris]

Re: Classification of NC

pratapkrg said:

What is the clause(ISO) under which this NC can be classified.

Hello Pratap - and welcome to this exciting place!

My very learned and knowledgeable colleagues will no doubt answer your question more directly.

My comment is that there is no requirement to assign an ISO 9001 clause number to every occasion when something is discovered in an internal audit.

The problem you describe is, presumably, a non-conformity with the procedure specified in your own development life-cycle? So, wouldn't it be more useful to refer to that instead of referring to ISO 9001?

 

[rrramirez]

What is the clause(ISO) under which this NC can be classified.

Project Initiation Note says Expected Project end date is 31-Dec-2003.

There are several clauses or elements where you could classify this NC:
7.2.1 a)
7.2.2 b)
7.2.3 b)
7.5.1 e)
8.2.1
8.4
8.5.2 a)

Even if there is not a requirement to associate a NC to a clause or element, if you don't do that, the auditee does not have a precise "cause" to implement an effective corrective action.

It's a good audit practice to associate a NC to a specific element or clause in the NCR in order to allow the auditee to perform an effective and efficient corrective action.

You could follow the guidance of element 4 d) of ISO 19011:2002.

 

[SteelMaiden]

Re: Classification of NC

pratapkrg said:

But contract got extended and the project is continuing.
but when auditing the auditee is not able to show the latest Statement Of Work(Contract) or any evidence to show that the Project is extended.

I am not a software person, so I might be way off base, but....

Is the nonconformance that the "contract" was not extended, or that the project is going to take longer than originally planned?

(Sorry to ask such a remedial question, but the more I read this post the more confused I got)

If, in fact, your issue is with the contract not being amended properly, I'd go with, maybe, 7.2.2? ..shall ensure that relevant documents are amended and relevant personnel are made aware of the changed requirements

If your concern is that by extending your projects expected completion date, then it is probably more in line with planning of product realization (7.1) or maybe corrective or preventive action under determining and implementing action needed?

IMHO, if it is an issue of contracts not being amended properly you have a more severe nonconformance than if you are extending due dates on projects/actions. Unless this happens all the time, and since your original completion date is still seven or eight months off, I'd go with an observation or opportunity for improvement on the due date issue, or maybe a minor nonconformance on the contract issue? Pick one, don't double up on NCR's.

All of this is speculative on my part, as I think that maybe we don't have all the info we need to make a good assessment.

 

[Tom Harris]

Re: What is the clause(ISO) under which this NC can be classified.

rrramirez said:

It's a good audit practice to associate a NC to a specific element or clause in the NCR in order to allow the auditee to perform an effective and efficient corrective action.

Hi rrramirez

Can you please explain how that works - how does associating a problem to a clause relate to a better (more effective and efficient) discovery and elimination of its root causes?

 

[M Greenaway]

Tom

I think the effectiveness is realised in the shortening of the argument about whether it is truly a non-compliance or not.

P.S. i would hang it on the clause that says something about changes to contracts or orders, communicating changes and keeping records - or something like that (sorry dont have my ISO9001 to hand).

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

M Greenaway said:
---X---
P.S. i would hang it on the clause that says something about changes to contracts or orders, communicating changes and keeping records - or something like that (sorry dont have my ISO9001 to hand).

Yes, I agree, and that would be 7.2.3b:

The organization shall determine and implement effective arrangements for communicating with customers in relation to

a) product information,
b) enquiries, contracts or order handling, including amendments, and
c) customer feedback, including customer complaints.

/Claes

 

[Tom Harris]

M Greenaway said:

I think the effectiveness is realised in the shortening of the argument about whether it is truly a non-compliance or not.

But surely - in terms of an internal audit - we don't care as much about complying with a clause as we do about a situation (to take Pratap's case) where an employee isn't sure of the committed delivery date of a project on which he/she is working.

Don't we want to ask "what can we do to make sure that doesn't happen in future?" rather than agonise about which clause to hang it on?!?!?

In other words, if we must talk compliance, let's focus on compliance to our own system, not to 9001! With all this talk of clauses flying around in companies, no wonder people get pissed off with 'audits' and with 'quality'!!

 

[pratapkrg - 2003]

Thank you all

I am really amazed by looking at so many responses. i am really happy to be part of such an active forum.


And I am sorry may be I was not able put forward my problem properly.

I will explain it again

We have a service project, which involves conversion of images in to data. The client sends us Scanned images of feedback forms filled by their customers. We need to enter this information in to a Database and send it back on daily basis. So every day morning we get some images from client, which will be converted into database and sent back by evening. And initially the contract was till Dec2002. Later on the Client extended the contract and we are billing him also. But during Internal Audit the auditee is not able to evidence that the project Contract is extended.

the above non confermance is classified under which clause of ISO 9001 2000.

Thanks in advance
Pratap Kumar Gogineni

 

[SteelMaiden]

In that case, I'd go back to my original thoughts_

"7.2.2? ..shall ensure that relevant documents are amended and relevant personnel are made aware of the changed requirements"