Clause 7.4.1.2 - Evidence of annual assessments for all non-TS Suppliers

[Taliesyn]

Is anyone else being hounded for evidence of annual assessments - using the TS audit days calculation - for all non-TS suppliers? Our CB is pushing this hard at the moment and, with multiple sites in different divisions using the same suppliers, this could end up costing a fortune in audit days.

 

[Bev D]

Re: Clause 7.4.1.2

does an assessment have to be an audit?

 

[Taliesyn]

Re: Clause 7.4.1.2

We are being advised that an audit - using the TS audit days calculator - is to be carried out for all non-TS suppliers. The audits only count if the auditor is a certified TS internal or lead auditor.

 

[Bev D]

can you cite the section of the standard - or your cutomer's requirement documents - that mandate this?

It just seems so horribly non-value-add and costly for everyone involved.

 

[Jim Wynne]

can you cite the section of the standard - or your cutomer's requirement documents - that mandate this?

It just seems so horribly non-value-add and costly for everyone involved.

This is part of Chrysler's customer-specific requirements. [PDF, see page 14]

It may appear in the CSRs of other OEMs as well.

 

[Taliesyn]

The Chrysler CSRs are far clearer than our customers - who state (in one case) that we should ensure compliance to a system "similar to TS16949".
None of my customer CSRs are as definitively written as Chryslers!
I'm just surprised that our CB is telling us this but no-one else is saying that their CBs are pushing them to do this - that's what worries me!

 

[Bev D]

Have you asked your CB for the exact citation that requires this for your case?

 

[Taliesyn]

The citation is clause 7.4.1.2 referring to supplier development. They are also quoting CSRs.

 

[db]

The requirement is probably from the IATF. In the Sanctioned Interpretations see here , it gives all the details.

 

[afredricks]

We just received an NCR for this and are trying to figure out how to deal with it. Per the Chrysler CSR:
4.7.2 Supplier Quality Management System Development
The requirements of Clause 7.4.1.2 can be met by either of two methods:
 Third-party certification of the organization?s suppliers to ISO/TS 16949.
 Second-party supplier assessment by an organization or an organization contracted third party.
4.7.3 Second Party Qualification Guidelines
1. The organization must be certified to ISO/TS 16949:2009 by an IATF-recognized Certification Body.
2. The second party cannot be on TS Suspension.
3. The second party must utilize a qualified lead auditor, or qualified internal auditor with evidence of successful completion of training or certification.
4. The second party must annually audit each qualifying supplier for whom it has performed the second party service, and maintain records of these audits. Records shall be retained on-site, but made available for review by Chrysler or the Certification Body upon request.
5. The duration of these audits must conform to the full application of the audit day requirements of the Automotive Certification Scheme for ISO/TS 16949:2002, Section 5.2.
6. Any IATF-recognized Certification Body may be utilized as an OEM-approved second party.

Our registrar is saying that if our supplier is not TS certified, we must audit them. The audit must follow the required man days in the TS rules. Since we are the only automotive customer for most of our suppliers, the majority only have ISO 9001. This could be a huge undertaking.