CMM (Capability Maturity Model) Audits vs. ISO 9001 Internal Audits

K

krchick

#1
Hello Everyone, I am new to the forums and pretty new to Quality.... I would like to say I am pleased to have found you!

Anyways....
What do you consider the difference of CMM internal Audits compared to ISO internal Audits for software. At this point I can only see the difference is prehaps some of the Quality Manual. I am interested in what others may think/know is the difference.


Thanks
Kimberly
 
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Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#2
I can't really say. I'm not an expert and the forums have never attracted software specialists. But CMM is a development plan in essence. You would take the CMM (Capability Maturity Model) requirements and audit them just as in an ISO 9001 audit you audit to the standard (and processes). In auditing CMM you would be auditing the program status and what point you are compliant to.

Maybe there's someone else which has more knowledge of CMM who can help out further and/or clarify my comments.

Sorry I can't help more.
 
K

krchick

#3
Thanks Marc,

I guess I should have been a little more specific. I know CMM and I have performed CMM internal audits. However, for software production in Germany, they tend to lead towards ISO instead of CMM. Therefore, because I have only experience in the area of CMM, I only wanted to verify that I understood (in theory) some of the differences.

Kimberly
 
B

Bruce Epstein

#5
Personally, I have successfully used both models to effect significant improvements in Quality in software organizations.

Although there was a significant difference between the CMM and ISO9001:1994, the addition of Continuous Process Improvement in 9001:2000 has helped narrow the gap.

The main difference that remains is that the CMM is specifically oriented to Software Development organizations, whereas ISO9001 is by its nature generic to all industries.

The CMM is also a "staged" model (as they say), meaning that it contains a "roadmap" for improvement. That is, there is some guidance as to which specific quality management practices are generally more useful first. The downfall of the CMM as it often gets used is to believe that it is a checklist rather than a guide. (However, the same error can be made with ISO9001 as well.)

In my experience, the most important question to ask is whether the improvement program (ISO or CMM, it doesn't matter much) is being implemented for marketing reasons or for management reasons.

By the way, a full description of the difference between the CMM and ISO9001:1994 can be found on the SEI website.

Mfg,
Bruce
 
K

krchick

#6
Thanks for your answers......

Bruce... thanks for your information however, I do not want to know the difference between ISO and CMM only the Audits. I have already read the SEI information and many other documents that compare ISO to CMM; But no one address Audits that I have found so far.

Marc.... I would say I am more interested in the ISO 9001. I do not actually work for anyone, I am only studying ISO and was curious if there was much of a difference.


Kimberly
 
B

Bruce Epstein

#7
An "official" answer

Kimberly,

It is difficult to answer your question properly, because strictly speaking, there is nothing called a "CMM Audit".

The purpose of the CMM is not certification, as is the case for ISO.

OK, now I will come down off my soapbox.

There are two types of operations which can be performed using the CMM.

The first is called "SCAMPI" (Standard CMMI SM Appraisal Method for Process Improvement), and generally occurs as follows (simplified explanation): A assessment team consisting of 1 or 2 outside experts plus 2 - 4 internal people reviews a representative cross-section of running projects, looking at the written procedures and the documented evidence, and then interviews with key people in the organization, including groups of development engineers. From this gathered information, the assessment team judges which key practices of the CMM are satisfied and which areas need additional work. These findings are presented back to the organization and then to Management as the basis for Continuous Improvement.

The second method is called SCE (Software Capability Evaluation) and consists of a customer's experts visiting a supplier or potential supplier and evaluating the maturity of the supplier's processes against the CMM. This has more the flavor of an audit.

This, of course, is the "official" description. In reality, many factors can influence the real performance of these assessments, so that they can become more like audits.

I hope this provides the information you were looking for.

Bruce (SEI-trained as a Lead Assessor in 1996)
 

Atul Khandekar

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
Bruce,
Simple but excellent explaination. Thanx.
I have one question. When a company says 'We are CMM-Level x company' (I've yet to see any company below x=4 !), who certifies that?
rgds,
-Atul.
 
B

Bruce Epstein

#9
It's amazing what can be used as Marketing material

Atul Khandekar said:

Bruce,
Simple but excellent explaination. Thanx.
I have one question. When a company says 'We are CMM-Level x company' (I've yet to see any company below x=4 !), who certifies that?
rgds,
-Atul.
See another of my posts about "grade inflation". When the first companies started reaching level 3 in the early 90s, they would proclaim victory with all appropriate fanfare. Today everyone is 4 or 5. (Personally, I have trouble believing it.)

Anyway, to answer your question, OFFICIALLY, there is no such certification. OFFICIALLY, the purpose of an assessment is to identify process strengths and weaknesses, to better be able to manage the organization.

HOWEVER, the final assessment report and ratings MAY be made public if desired, and they MAY indicate that Company X, as judged by SEI-Approved Lead Assessor Y, satisfies the characteristics associated with level Z of the CMM. The veracity of this statement is backed up only by the integrity of the Lead Assessor, but as with many marketing claims, it's the first impression that counts.

Not that I would EVER call into question the moral fiber of the Assessor community; after all, they are just as irreproachable as Big 5 accounting firms (oops, did I say 5? I mean 4, or is that 3 now?):vfunny: :vfunny: :smokin:

Bruce
 
B

Bruce Epstein

#10
One last word

One last word, which helps sum up the differences between ISO certification and CMM assessment:

An official ISO certificate (quoting here from my company's) states:

"The QUALITY SYSTEM of Company X has been found to conform to the Quality System Standard ISO9001:1994."

The final report of a CMM assessment states:

"The performed processes of Company X have been found to satsify the goals of Level Y of the CMM".

A subtle but important distinction, often overlooked.

Bruce
 
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