COA's (Certificate of Analysis) from suppliers - Beginning to question validity

[engjane]

We are getting snowed under with Certs of Analysis from our suppliers and we're beginning to question their validity.
Here are some of the thoughts we are having:

1) We dont supply CoA's to our customer so why do we need them from the next level down?
2) We don't do much with them except a quick check and file....couldnt they stay at the suppliers site unless needed?
3) What additional, if any, items should our suppliers be doing to remove the need for COA's.

We havent got round to re-reading TS (we're prepping for a surveillance audit and we're down three team members so its a little busy ) but I thought if I dropped a quick note on Elsmar, perhaps some wise quality warriors out there could help us.


Any wisdom is much appreciated

Jane

 

[Jim Wynne]

We are getting snowed under with Certs of Analysis from our suppliers and we're beginning to question their validity.

Because you're posting in a TS16949 forum, I'm assuming that you're dealing with automotive requirements. The AIAG requirements are for material test reports. See the 3rd Edition PPAP manual, page 5 for the requirements. Chances are that most of the certs that you receive don't meet those requirements.

1) We dont supply CoA's to our customer so why do we need them from the next level down?

Because you're expected to have them available whether or not you submit them to your customer. If you're dealing with PPAP, they should be submitted or retained unless you have explicit waivers from your customers.

2) We don't do much with them except a quick check and file....couldnt they stay at the suppliers site unless needed?

If you "flow down" the PPAP requirements, then yes, you can allow your suppliers to retain the documentation, so long as you're reasonably sure that it meets the requirements cited above, and that you can get copies in a hurry if you need them.

3) What additional, if any, items should our suppliers be doing to remove the need for COA's.

Documentation of meeting material (and other) customer specifications is a basic requirement, and one that shouldn't be taken lightly. Nearly everyone who has experience in these matters can tell horror stories about nonconforming raw materials. If you're not meeting the AIAG requirements for material test reports, you should be.

 

[Kevin H]

TS: 7.4.1: "The organization shall ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements.", 7.4.3: The organization shall establish and implement the inspection or other activities necessary for ensuring that purchased product meets specified purchase requirements." 7.4.3.1: The organization shall have a process to assure the quality of purchased product(see 7.4.3) utilizing one or more of the following methods: - receipt of, and evaluation of, statistical data by the organization; - receiving inspection and/or testing such as sampling based on performance; - second- or third-party assessment or audits of supplier sites, when coupled with records of acceptable delivered product quality; - part evaluation by a designated laboratory; - another method agreed with the customer.

So, just receiving and reviewing c of a's doesn't meet any of the above requirements, unless you're also coupling it with one of the methods listed in 7.4.3.1., such as 2nd/3rd party audits, receiving inspection/testing.

The preferable method to my way of thinking would be statistical data from your supplier - it'll cut down on paperwork/volume significantly and actually gives you a better idea/comfort zone on their capability.

 

[Craig H.]

Jane:

Have you thought about receiving and filing these by email? Works for us.

 

[engjane]

Thank you for the advice so far. Of course we do have inspections and so on......so don't worry about us being in non compliance.
Its just the mountain of papers that were cheesing us off.
We do have an electronic system for our large suppliers and the COA's are submitted on line which helps. However, you still have to go and look at them!

Our thoughts were all about elimination of a task (if poss.) 'Specially when our dept. is shrinking. You can't keep saying "when I get a moment I'll file them" cos you know that moment is not going to happen!

Ah well.....must plough on with this TS prep stuff.....