Comair had old diagram of Kentucky Airport

Elsmar Forum Sponsor

errhine

Involved - Posts
#2
Maybe also a reminder to follow and double check the documents you have. Had the pilot looked at his heading, he would have realized he was lined up on the wrong runway prior to his take-off roll.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#3
I used to fly and I have a hard time believing the pilot / co-pilot didn't know by looking that they were on the wrong runway. There was more to the accident than an outdated airport map.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Seems to me FAA could have mistake proofed the map
FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said Tuesday that the maps aren't changed to reflect every airport construction project, and airlines are alerted to those changes through notices to flight crews.
by posting such a message in big bold letters on every map!
 
M

Mike Smith

#5
Agreed! I also believe there was more to it that an outdated map. Time will tell perhaps once the investigation is complete.
 

errhine

Involved - Posts
#6
Seems to me FAA could have mistake proofed the mapby posting such a message in big bold letters on every map!
The FAA requires reading NOTAMs (Notice to airmen) before every flight as part of the FARs. Far more efficient then posting an permanent advisory that would be ignored on charts or airport directories. Both of which are updated twice a year (if I remember correctly).
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#7
Contributing Factor - Control Tower Understaffed

Contributing Factor - From the Associated Press:
UP said:
LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) — Months before the Comair jet crash that killed 49 people, air traffic controllers at the Lexington airport wrote to federal officials complaining about a hostile working environment in the tower and short-staffing on the overnight shift, according to letters obtained by The Associated Press.

In identical letters sent April 4 to Kentucky's senators, Republicans Mitch McConnell and Jim Bunning, a control tower worker said the overnight shift, or "mid," is staffed with two people "only when convenient to management."

The Federal Aviation Administration's guidelines called for two people to be there the morning of the Aug. 27 crash, but only one was present.

"We had a controller retire last month and now we are back to single man mids," wrote Faron Collins, a union leader for the Lexington control tower workers. "I ask you one simple question. Are two people needed on the mids for safety or not? If they are, why are they not scheduled?"

Collins said Tuesday that he sent the letters to the Washington and Kentucky offices for both senators. Bunning's spokesman Mike Reynard confirmed that his office received them, but McConnell's office said it had not located the correspondence in its computer system that tracks constituent mail.

After mistakenly turning onto a runway that was too short, the commuter jet struggled to get airborne and crashed. Investigators said the plane made the wrong turn after the lone controller on duty turned his back to do some paperwork. The co-pilot was the sole survivor; he was seriously injured.

Besides the letter to the senators, another Lexington control tower operator wrote to the FAA's Accountability Board on Dec. 1, 2005, complaining about a hostile work environment in the tower. That employee requested anonymity, fearing discipline against him.

"Not only do the vast majority of controllers worry about the security of their jobs, but this anxiety in the work place should be considered a legitimate safety concern for the flying public since controllers are not in a healthy state of mind while working traffic," he wrote.

FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said she had no immediate comment Tuesday on the complaint.
 
C

Craig H.

#9
I have had one question that I have been hoping would be answered since this wreck.

Most runways that I have been on in small private planes have the runway number (which is also the last 2 numbers of the heading) in HUGE numbers at the end of the runway. Did this runway have such numbers on it? If not, why not?
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#10
Yes, there are numbers. There are other aspects which are 'unusual'. The flight departed the gate around 6 am. Sunrise that day was about 7.30 am. There were no runway lights on the runway they tried to take off on which I can hardly believe did not 'ring a bell' in the pilot's (PIC - Pilot in Command) head.

I've been on airport tarmacks as PIC during the dark - Small ones like Fulton, Missouri's little guy, and big ones like Kansas City and St. Louis. I've flown into and out of Lexington (last during the early 1980's) as PIC and it's not huge. Now, I know it can be really confusing at times out there on the tarmack, especially in the dark, but for a professional pilot this is not rocket science.

This was a stack-up of 'small' errors, but ultimately I fault the pilot / co-pilot for not being aware / alert. The taxiway edge lights and runway edge lights would have been on at that time, but the runway they tried to take off on had no runway lights on as I understand it. It just doesn't add up to me. You look down the runway as you line up with the runway and prepare for the takeoff roll and the lights are obvious. I never would have taken off during the dark on a runway that didn't have runway edge lights on and I don't know any pilots who would.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M Why are EU harmonized particular standards so old & out-of-date? IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 10
Q New QMS...Old Projects ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
M Old Master Schedules - How Long to Keep? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 4
G Adopting old product - compliance with IEC 62304 IEC 62304 - Medical Device Software Life Cycle Processes 9
I Old Time Scatter diagrams for defect type and location- software Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 7
C Refreshing an old and boring topic - Job descriptions and Roles vs Process Documentation ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 38
Q Old products new class - Dental Devices - Choosing tests EU Medical Device Regulations 2
K Old medical devices -> 7.3.7. Design and development validation ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
M Interesting Discussion Curious old drawings about electrical shock and safety IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 1
Marc Interesting Discussion The periodic table is 150 years old - March 2019 Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 3
Marc Old Registered Visitors "Pruned" from the Database - 20180916 Forum News and General Information 0
Marc 200-year-old museum in Rio de Janeiro Destroyed by Fire - 2 SEPT 2018 World News 2
C Document Control - old revision vs new revision Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 22
Marc Adventures in Design Quality Assurance - Two-week-old Pixel 2 XL displays World News 0
A Training Program Help - Old docs, new docs, so many docs... ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
K Canada License Amendment - Old Product to New Product Canada Medical Device Regulations 2
B Old GD&T Symbol "~" Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
L Sources for Searching Old Electronic Parts Specs (Counterfeit Inspection) Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 3
Q Modifying an old printed record? ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
G Customer wants PPAP on Old Parts to New Standards APQP and PPAP 8
A Technical File Maintenance - Old generation product EU Medical Device Regulations 4
A PUWER (Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations) and old machines (UK rules) Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 4
E I'm looking for old publications of European Quality in pdf Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 2
J How to Retrofit an old, manual CMM Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 5
C Upgrading an old Supermicrometer General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
S Old Medical Device Software Submission Guidance from 1998 Other US Medical Device Regulations 8
G Not quite old news: Statement of Applicability IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 3
R IMDS time frame submission for a very old product APQP and PPAP 1
M Old software and EN 62304 - ECG software for the display of ECG IEC 62304 - Medical Device Software Life Cycle Processes 2
W Where to find the Daimler DBL 6992 10 new (old) standard Customer and Company Specific Requirements 1
P Performance Qualification of old Rapid Mixer Granulator Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 2
Q IQ Requirements for Old (10 yrs) Commissioned Equipment Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 2
R Covegratulations to The Cove: 18 years old! Covegratulations 3
N FDA Aspects - No Improvements to 12 Year Old Software ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
T Software that will overlay Old Revision and New Revision Print and Compare Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
M Old MSDS Sheets vs new HCS Standard - Format Requirements Manufacturing and Related Processes 18
H Digging Up Bones - Inspector Retrieving Very Old Inspection Data Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
V Old 510(k) with no Indication Statement 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 4
K Retrospective DHF for an old non-registered device 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 3
F Receiving a new Gage Block Set with an old Certificate Calibration Frequency (Interval) 3
Randy Looky here - Check out my 9-month old Great-Grandson Hayden Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 4
G Help with an old Spectrum 1000BX FTIR unit - User Manual wanted Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
M AS9100A (old revision) - Required C=0 sampling plans if sampling was used? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
R Using Curve Fits and Predictions in place of good old Measurements General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
N What to do about very old MSDS Sheets Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 24
C Hazards of Old Electronics Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 9
D Registrar Requesting Copies of Old Documents AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
V We put Old plating spec on supplier prints and need to PPAP to Customer. APQP and PPAP 1
G Old Medical Device Equipment - Compliance with New or Old Standard - What to do? Other Medical Device Related Standards 3
R PPAP requests for old parts that pre-date your PPAP Process APQP and PPAP 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom