Company President as an Internal Auditor

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#11
If the boss isn't being impartial and objective are you going to feel comfortable telling him that?

Another aspect to consider.
Well, if I can't trust him to do the right thing, I'm not going to work for him for long. I have, and will again if needed, tell someone from management that they are not impartial and/or objective. Actually, the CEO agreed with me and as part of the corrective action to improve this manager's skills and commitment he was sent to internal auditor classes. He soon changed his viewpoint on the whole "ISO" program and later became one of the best auditors that we had.

I think that in some instances it might be impossible to insure objectivity and impartiality. it depends on the motives and general modus operandi of the CEO, and because there are an awful lot of them who can't be trusted, I'm not sure I like the idea as a general practice.
All I can say to this is that most of the crooks aren't going to want to take the time because there are easier ways for them to wield their wicked motives and general modus operandi. I am so thankful that I work for a corporation that would not tolerate for long any CEO who could not be trusted.
 
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ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#12
I'm on the optimist side of the coin here.

1) If the boss wants to be an auditor, he's the boss so he should be an auditor. Who's to tell him "no"?
2) It shows great support for the audit system. If I was a customer of yours I'd think "hey - that's great buy in from upper management".

Using the logic that he's responsible for everything so he can't be impartial, I think, is faulty.
I'll bet he's not the process owner of every single process in the company, so he can audit those processes that he does not "own".
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#13
It's true that optimism has a place in this topic.

I recall reading a news story about CEOs who spent a week working amongst the front row line workers. One, in a hotel chain, realized how uncomfortable the uniforms were for housekeeping staff and had them replaced. Another realized his restaurant chain's kitchens really needed another sink, so he had them installed.

When auditing moves past compliance and into assessing performance, these opportunities can become plainer. If this person is inclined to go and objectively see for himself, it could be a really good thing.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#14
It's true that optimism has a place in this topic.
It's important to be able to distinguish between optimism and delusions, though. I think it's a great thing for executives to experience being beaten over the head with their leadership failures firsthand. The problem is that an executive who will actually take the initiative to get involved at that level probably already knows what it feels like and won't need to.

There's a difference between executive involvement and leadership and being involved in internal auditing. The more I think about it, the less I like the idea. The auditors should be evaluating the 80% of process problems that only management can change, and providing information so that management can do its job. If management can't be content to allow truly objective evaluation, it won't matter much who does the auditing.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#15
It's important to be able to distinguish between optimism and delusions, though. I think it's a great thing for executives to experience being beaten over the head with their leadership failures firsthand. The problem is that an executive who will actually take the initiative to get involved at that level probably already knows what it feels like and won't need to.

There's a difference between executive involvement and leadership and being involved in internal auditing. The more I think about it, the less I like the idea. The auditors should be evaluating the 80% of process problems that only management can change, and providing information so that management can do its job. If management can't be content to allow truly objective evaluation, it won't matter much who does the auditing.

but in a small 60 person company?
I consider that leading by example.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#16
but in a small 60 person company?
I consider that leading by example.

It's an interesting premise. I would say try a couple audits and see how it goes. Remember, the format of the Chrysler Layered Audit actually requires participation by top management. So, the idea is not that radical.

Please, let us know how it worked out.
 
K

Ken K

#17
I think it's a great idea. He'll see first hand how the system is working without hearing about it from a second party. And he'll also see any area's that need work which will be a huge benefit. :applause:
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#18
I think it's a great idea. He'll see first hand how the system is working without hearing about it from a second party. And he'll also see any area's that need work which will be a huge benefit. :applause:
Which suggests that his "second party" (internal auditors) can't be trusted to provide accurate information, or if they can be trusted, that he can't be trusted to do anything with it. :(
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#19
It's important to be able to distinguish between optimism and delusions, though.
There's a difference between executive involvement and leadership and being involved in internal auditing. The more I think about it, the less I like the idea.
As always, good points Jim. I have been going back and forth on this. My dilemma would be similar to taking the college test and asking "Ok, what is the professor thinking?" My question is: Why does the Prez want to do this?

In the end, I might nod the head on it and say yes. I think my reasoning is not in the value of the audit findings, per se, but in the act of performing the audits. (ASIDE: I bet he/she could get their observations/NC's closed out):yes:


Several years back, the Prez of El Chico corporation prided himself on being able to effectively run the dishwasher station (and he could do it well, too. Cause/ effect here: Did he understand the imporatnce of that station prior to performing the work, or learned to understand the importance when he saw the whole restaurant stop because he wasn't doing it right? When did learning occur?


While there would be red flags in the back of my mind on this, I would still embrace it.


I think this is a good question. Hence, very valid points have been made on both sides.
 
T

Tym Tucker

#20
Well, I'm not the pres, but one rung lower. I did internal audits and we just passed our audit yesterday! It was technically a surveillance audit. However, as I've posted in the past, I'm at a new company this year whose system should never have been registered in the first place so we basically had to re-implement the whole thing. Our quality manager quit in late summer, so I did basically 50% of re-engineering the system before I finally found a great person to fill the position.

So yes, I audited many of our processes. I'm not sure if my direct involvement in creating the processes, or my position in the company is a factor or not. When it's audit time, I want a real picture of what's happening. Are these processes working or not? As far as auditing and interviewing folks: they're aware, have their docs and records in order, etc. or they don't. Show me the evidence.


It should probably be noted, however, that coming from an engineering and quality background I'm the breed who realizes the quality system (business system) has a greater effect on the success of our company, and my career goals, than most other factors. I do think that anyone could be properly trained to conduct a valuable audit, even the president (unless his background is sales/marketing, maybe):notme:

Tym Tucker
Vice President, Operations
Cable Technologies, Inc.
 
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