Comparison of two gauges - Gage R&R

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#11
Re: Comparison of two gauges

Hi,

1. The 30um is repeatability for Gauge B, stated by the manufacturer. this number is stated by the manufacturer, so, I am looking for a method to verify this number.

2. Gauge A and B are fully automated and no need to consider the error from operator.

3. In our company, we use GRR to qualify a new gauge, however, the GRR does not tell me that if the gauge can meet repeatability of 30um. (Please correct me if I am wrong). GRR only tell me that the repeatability and reproducibility is acceptable or not.
Most MSA software will provide an intermediate calculation of the actual variation due to repeatability , reproducibility, etc. before providing the percentages. These intermediate results are typically in the form of a standard deviation or as an ANOVA table. If you attache your data and/or results, we can help you find this.

4. I am familier with "Youden plot", could you state more. For example, if the result from Gauge A and Gauge does not fall closelt to 45, what does it mean?

5. Perhaps "Bland Altman plot" is more better. But, I will need to read more information.

Thanks,
Try searching www.pdf-search-engine.com for "Statistical methods for assessing agreement between two methods of clinical assessment" by J. Martin Bland and Douglas G. Altman. MedCalc software also published a very understandable summary of the plot and how to interpret it on their website.
 
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Devlin

#13
Re: Comparison of two gauges

Hi,

Thank you for the file. In the excel, who decides the acceptance criteria of "% Bias" and "% UNCERTAINTY".
By the way, what is the difference between "Measurement uncertainty" and "GRR"? Is GRR not a way to verify a new gauge?

Regards,



I am giving here an xles work sheet to calculate ,Measurement Uncertainity,. The explanation to use the same was given by me last week in the same forum.

V.J.Brahmaiah
 
D

Devlin

#14
Re: Comparison of two gauges

Hi,

Gauge B will be a new gauge for us, so, we do not have the data yet. Regarding to the plot, I will read it.

Regards,


Most MSA software will provide an intermediate calculation of the actual variation due to repeatability , reproducibility, etc. before providing the percentages. These intermediate results are typically in the form of a standard deviation or as an ANOVA table. If you attache your data and/or results, we can help you find this.

Try searching www.pdf-search-engine.com for "Statistical methods for assessing agreement between two methods of clinical assessment" by J. Martin Bland and Douglas G. Altman. MedCalc software also published a very understandable summary of the plot and how to interpret it on their website.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#16
Re: Comparison of two gauges

Yeah - Some 'homework'. You do have to understand the part measurement uncertainty plays, and you have to understand the difference between Gage R&R which is the Repeatability and Reproducibility of a gage vs. Measurement Uncertainty which is where you calculate how much potential systemic and random error there will be with a measurement instrument (as I understand it in simple terms).

An added aspect is when a gage (measurement instrument) is on an automated machine where there are not a human (or multiple humans) involved taking the measurement(s).

Best I can tell you, my not being a measurement guru.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#17
Re: Comparison of two gauges

By the way, what is the difference between "Measurement uncertainty" and "GRR"? Is GRR not a way to verify a new gauge?

Regards,
Marc provided a good summary of the differences. In your situation GRR is an acceptable method to verify a new gage. I commend your efforts to statistically verify your decision on the new gage.
 
D

Devlin

#18
Re: Comparison of two gauges

Hi,

Thank you.
Let me confirm again, with GRR to qualify our new gauge, I do not need to run repeatability. Is it correct?

Regards,

Marc provided a good summary of the differences. In your situation GRR is an acceptable method to verify a new gage. I commend your efforts to statistically verify your decision on the new gage.
 
D

Devlin

#19
Re: Comparison of two gauges

Hi,

The GRR is to understand the repeatability and reproducibility of a gauge. Our gauge is fully automaed and I think we skip the reproducibility. My question is from GRR we can understand the gauge repeatability and is it not measurement uncertainty?

Regards,


Yeah - Some 'homework'. You do have to understand the part measurement uncertainty plays, and you have to understand the difference between Gage R&R which is the Repeatability and Reproducibility of a gage vs. Measurement Uncertainty which is where you calculate how much potential systemic and random error there will be with a measurement instrument (as I understand it in simple terms).

An added aspect is when a gage (measurement instrument) is on an automated machine where there are not a human (or multiple humans) involved taking the measurement(s).

Best I can tell you, my not being a measurement guru.
 
D

Devlin

#20
Re: Comparison of two gauges

Hi,

Thank you for the article. I like this article. "Statistical methods for assessing agreement between two methods of clinical assessment"
There is one question from the article, in the page 8, they compare the corrected standard deviation of difference, 37.7l/min, with the estimate 38.8l/min, which was obtained using a single measurement. How do I know these two numbers are comparable?

Regards,


Most MSA software will provide an intermediate calculation of the actual variation due to repeatability , reproducibility, etc. before providing the percentages. These intermediate results are typically in the form of a standard deviation or as an ANOVA table. If you attache your data and/or results, we can help you find this.

Try searching www.pdf-search-engine.com for "Statistical methods for assessing agreement between two methods of clinical assessment" by J. Martin Bland and Douglas G. Altman. MedCalc software also published a very understandable summary of the plot and how to interpret it on their website.
 
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