Definition Competence - What is the meaning of Competence? ISO 9001 Clause 6.2.2 Competence

B

blue moon

#1
6.2.2 Competence, training and awareness

The organization shall
a) determine the necessary competence for personnel performing work affecting conformity to product requirements,


Dear Friend is the meaning of competence ?

1. that the organization determine the competence of people before recruite ?

or

2. that the organization determine the competence needed for this people after they get a job ?


because some auditors ask to see competency requirements specifications (minimum education, training and experience) and assign it as NCR if not exisit


where i see and think that the standard only ask for determining the competence needed for the people performing work affecting conformity to product requirements.

and this will move the company twoards takeing action like " training "


please help me in this point.
 
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howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Clause 6.2.2 Competence. What is the meaning of competence?

You need both. Competence is defined as "the demonstrated ability to apply knowledge and skills." ISO 9001 requires that we define competencies in terms of education, training, skills, and experience.
- For some positions you may require a person to have all of the competencies before you hire them.
- For some positions you may require a person to have education and experience, then you will provide training and help them to develop the skills.
- For some positions you may have no requirements for education or experience, and you will provide training and help the person to develop the skills.

Whether done before or after hiring, the company is responsible to define the requirements, and then to ensure that the defined requirements are met - with records to demonstrate conformity.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Re: Clause 6.2.2 Competence. What is the meaning of competence?

Competence is associated with the JOB.
Your employees must be competent to perform their JOB.
When you hire new folks, you must determine if they possess the necessary competency to perform that JOB.
If not, you provide training (or other activities) and you must verify effectiveness.

Hope this helps.

Stijloor.
 
B

blue moon

#4
Re: Clause 6.2.2 Competence. What is the meaning of competence?

is this mean that Job description or competency requirements specifications (minimum education, training and experience) is required ?


and if it isn't exist ? it could raise a non conform ?
 
B

blue moon

#6
Re: Clause 6.2.2 Competence. What is the meaning of competence?

But i think as the standard cluase

a) determine the necessary competence for personnel performing work affecting conformity to product requirements,


it is mean that the organization must know what the competence needed for those people to perform their job

and according to this they will assign training needed and there are no asking about ( what the education needed , what is the skill needed)

the important is to know what our employee need to make their job


and i think if there is not Job description or competence requirement is not required , becuase may be i hire a person to perform a job and after two month i give him another job and according to the new job the organization will investigate about the new competencies needed for this new job
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Re: Clause 6.2.2 Competence. What is the meaning of competence?

But i think as the standard cluase

a) determine the necessary competence for personnel performing work affecting conformity to product requirements,


it is mean that the organization must know what the competence needed for those people to perform their job

and according to this they will assign training needed and there are no asking about ( what the education needed , what is the skill needed)

the important is to know what our employee need to make their job


and i think if there is not Job description or competence requirement is not required , becuase may be i hire a person to perform a job and after two month i give him another job and according to the new job the organization will investigate about the new competencies needed for this new job
I am a little confused. :confused: The Standard is very clear. I tried to answer your questions to the best of my abilities. Can you summarize your concern in one question, and we'll take it from there....

Stijloor.
 
B

blue moon

#8
Re: Clause 6.2.2 Competence. What is the meaning of competence?

I am a little confused. :confused: The Standard is very clear. I tried to answer your questions to the best of my abilities. Can you summarize your concern in one question, and we'll take it from there....

Stijloor.

i am so sorry for this , you are not required to answer me and i am sorry again
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Re: Clause 6.2.2 Competence. What is the meaning of competence?

i am so sorry for this, you are not required to answer me and i am sorry again
No, I would like to help you! :agree: That's what we're here for. But I have difficulty finding out what your concerns are. So can we take it one point at the time? :agree1:

Stijloor.
 
S

samsung

#10
Re: Clause 6.2.2 Competence. What is the meaning of competence?

But i think as the standard cluase
and i think if there is not Job description or competence requirement is not required , becuase may be i hire a person to perform a job and after two month i give him another job and according to the new job the organization will investigate about the new competencies needed for this new job
If there is no job description, what a person you hire for and on what criterion? Further, if you hire someone to 'perform a job' (affecting conformity to product requirements), as you mentioned, there should be some sort of criteria to justify your hiring the gentleman. If you put him to the 'new job'; again you will have to determine competencies (against the pre-defined criteria) for this 'new job' and likewise in every instance of his placement from one job to another & so on.

And the standard requires to 'maintain appropriate records of education, training, skills and experience'
 
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