Competency of Trainer for Internal Auditor Training (IATF 16949)

B

buffalo

#1
Dear All,

IATF 16949 (7.2.3 Internal auditor competency):

QMS auditors shall be able to demonstrate the following minimum requirements:
a, understanding of the automotive process approach for auditing
b, understanding of applicable CSR
c, understanding of applicable ISO 9001 & IATF 16949 requirements
d, understanding of applicable core tools
e, understanding how to plan, conduct, report and close out audit findings

Where training is provided to achieve competency (of internal auditor), documented information shall be retained to demonstrate the trainer's competency with the above requirements.

We are looking for an external trainer for internal auditors training, and don't know what kinds of certificate (documented information) are needed from the trainer to satisfy this requirement.

Do any of you have any ideas?

Thanks a lot.
 
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jelly1921

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
Re: Competency of trainer for internal auditor training

The requriements of a), c) d) and/or e) could be demonstrated by external trainer with a certificate that shows the trainee have been trained with these subjects.

For e), usually, the organization could define the times of internal audit that the new auditor has to conduct as trainee, and as lead auditor supervised by qualified auditor. That kind of records could demonstrate to meet the requirement of e).

For b), OEMs usually provide CSR training, so the certificate from OEM could provide demontration. Or, the organization could provide such training if OEM have not such course. In that case, the training record could demonstrate it.

Jelly
 

QualitySpirit

Involved In Discussions
#3
Hi I would prepare my QMS auditors to be able to answer CB auditors questions that demonstrate their understanding clearly.

Mostly CB auditors would care more to verify understanding by interview than to look at paper records. If it is found some QMS auditors totally have no ideas about those competency, they would look in the paper records of those questionable internal auditors.

For documented information to demonstrate trainer's competency, I think simple resume or work history and related training should be acceptable to CB auditors.

What is your opinion?
 
Last edited:
B

buffalo

#4
Thank you QualitySpirit,

I still wonder if the external trainer must be trained by OEM (for SCR) & IATF authorized organization such as SMMT for IATF & core tools? Or training certificates from any orgnization are accepted.
 

QualitySpirit

Involved In Discussions
#5
Hi,
I don't think that "the external trainer must be trained by OEM (for SCR) & IATF authorized organization such as SMMT for IATF & core tools" is required in this requirement.
If customer CSR does not specify so clearly that they want it that way, I don't think CB auditors have enough basis to raise a nonconformity for external trainers not being trained by OEM or authorized organization.

Subjects a, c, d, are quite general. An external trainer could provide a proof of his competency by work records, or certificates of training e.g. ISO9001:2015, IATF16949 etc.

Subject b, customer CSR should be trained by your customers not by an external trainer.
Otherwise you will need to provide the trainer all CSRs for his study before he can achieve competency himself to train your internal auditors.
 

Peters

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
It could be more complicated.
Trainer for internal auditors in the scope of "core tools" is John Smith.
Does John Smith may be a trainer? He has a certificate in "core tools" released by James Jones.
Is that enough? Not so fast…, Is James Jones enaugh qualified to train the John Smith? James Jones has a certificate in "core tools" released by Mark Brown.
Is that enough? Etc etc ...
 
Last edited:

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#8
It could be more complicated.
Trainer for internal auditors in the scope of "core tools" is John Smith.
Does John Smith may be a trainer? He has a certificate in "core tools" released by James Jones.
Is that enough? Not so fast…, Is James Jones enaugh qualified to train the John Smith? James Jones has a certificate in "core tools" released by Mark Brown.
Is that enough? Etc etc ...
Yep at the end of the day, you'll need to pull out your wallet and attend the IATF/AIAG auditor training. Anything less will just cause you nightmares come audit time.
 

Peters

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
It's not my problem.
It will be the problem for companies during the certification audit performed by "creative" auditors.
 
#10
Yep at the end of the day, you'll need to pull out your wallet and attend the IATF/AIAG auditor training. Anything less will just cause you nightmares come audit time.
I would have to agree. Our CB auditor came right out and said that this is the easiest way to satisfy the requirement of internal auditor competency.
 
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