Consistently Late Internal Audits- Any Suggestions?

[Buckeye001]

Oh...add note... a bit off topic.

Thank you for being an active member in this and following up on questions/ thoughts. It makes for a much more accurate, and honestly, more fun and informative post.

i came to accept that reality (trying to push the boulder up the hill wasn't working) back in December. I stopped begging for the reports and put it on my management contact (along with some other QMS issues i haven't mentioned in this post). i have been with this company for over 20 yrs now (we've been ISO certified since '07) and this is the worst i have seen the audit process. Along with my management contact, i reach out to other (that i have worked with previously) hoping something would happen during the quarterly management meetings. nothing (that i am aware of) came from that. as i have said, the chickens are about to come home to roost). thanks for your thoughts though

 

[AuditFan]

and this is the worst i have seen the audit process.

Let me break it to you gently... You have to be the one to change what you're doing. You have a people problem, not an audit problem. When you make the audits a serious business issue, then you'll see a different response.

 

[blackholequasar]

Why would people volunteer? Audits are a trial by a crooked judge. What's unfortunate is that management are not seeking to make their brightest stars into auditors.

I think having a volunteer process shows that folks are passionate about being advocates for the process. I didn't say take EVERY volunteer, especially if they're only after a pizza party or bonus, but consider the ones who are articulate enough to have accountability and change process to fit the areas they are auditing. That is valuable.

I agree with your statement, though, about having management seek out bright stars. Unfortunately... sometimes it's a limited slice of the galaxy we're looking at and most of them are old, red dwarf stars and not the glorious hypergiant haha

 

[Buckeye001]

A problem is that if you have an auditor who is unfamiliar with the process, e.g. sales, or design engineering those being audited will feel that there's no empathy for the challenges they encounter and it won't go well. Far better to have a person who knows the process, terminology, objectives, results (including poor performance) and then make sure they are objective and unbiased in their audits..

i do take someone not being familiar with the Process into account. i have select auditors from each of the various department/backgrounds. some people (like me) have worked in multiple departments. I encourage the auditors to have the subject matter expert sit in with them--not to ask questions, but to provide support and "crumbs" to follow. Again, i have seen some really good information from all of the responses. THANK YOU, VERY MUCH! I will use a lot of this for the CAR that gets generated,

 

[AuditFan]

I think having a volunteer process shows that folks are passionate about being advocates for the process.

I understand, but what's the point if they don't possess empathy? Or some basic communication skills, like actually listening? Or are plagued by confirmation bias? Or can't write/spell/do math? Big picture viewers? Enthusiasm/passion only gets you so far when the practical realities of the audit bite.

 

[AuditFan]

I will use a lot of this for the CAR that gets generated,

Why is a CAR needed? Be like Nike.

 

[Big Jim]

The root cause for the consistently tardy audits is, without a doubt, the internal perception that such audits are a non value added activity. Management doesn't care, auditors don't care, nobody cares. If audits were perceived as something that adds substance to the organization, management would "ensure" they happened and, who knows, even at a higher frequency.

The auditors see that as a chore, on top of their jobs. So, it is a lose-lose proposition which just happens to satisfy an external auditors.

Until internal audits are perceived as something that aggregates value to the business, your struggle will continue.

It also seems evident that top management doesn't support the quality management system. Until they truly do, you will continue to fight this company culture issue.

 

[Big Jim]

I didn't even really pay attention to the time frame involved..........30-45 days? I'm sorry but it's time for my renowned bluntness.... 30-45 days for an internal audit report is one of the largest baskets of horse bagels I've heard of in a while.

I might write upwards of 40 or more audit reports a year, not internal reports either, but multi-standard, multiple auditor, multi-day, high risk reports, whether they be annual surveillance, Stage 1, Stage 2, recertification, extension to scope, certificate transfer, annual synthesis, corrective action close out, you name it in the ISO world and I do it (as do other participants here as well). No matter what type of job, no matter how complex, no matter the risk, the performance metric I meet is 2 days, that's it 2 business days. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason for 30-45 days for some internal audit report, and I don't care if you're auditing a process for making chewing gum or creating synthetic Human DNA (and I've done both). You are shooting yourself in the butt from the git-go with this 30-45 day stuff. Volunteer, voluntold, drafted, hood-winked or otherwise, you are allowing your auditors to scam you from the start, and have created an equation for failure.

Go to your leadership, change the process, tighten the parameters and get people that want to do the job.

Question...How large is your organization? 5-10-100-1000 people or what?

Personally, I turn in the report at the end of the audit. That is the same day. My experience has been that any delay dilutes the effectiveness of the audit. I don't have a problem with others taking two days or even a week if they can stay effective. Anything more that a week just invites trouble.

 

[Big Jim]

i came to accept that reality (trying to push the boulder up the hill wasn't working) back in December. I stopped begging for the reports and put it on my management contact (along with some other QMS issues i haven't mentioned in this post). i have been with this company for over 20 yrs now (we've been ISO certified since '07) and this is the worst i have seen the audit process. Along with my management contact, i reach out to other (that i have worked with previously) hoping something would happen during the quarterly management meetings. nothing (that i am aware of) came from that. as i have said, the chickens are about to come home to roost). thanks for your thoughts though

It isn't pleasant to work where you are not appreciated.

 

[Mike S.]

Hi Buckeye,

Sorry I am very late to this conversation. Lots of good, and some not so good, advice above. I have 2 quick points, worth every penny you paid me:

1. For internal audits, audit your processes, procedures, etc. Do not audit against the standard's clauses.

2. As many others have indicated, until management decides they want (for whatever reasons) internal audits to be done on-time, it won't happen. Virtually anything management really wants done will get done. Yes, some conscientious auditors will do whatever it takes to get it done because they take pride in their work and completing assignments, but you won't achieve 100% or even close without management making it a priority.

Been there, done that, fought that fight for 30 years and counting....

I've seen years of 100% on-time audit performance and not once was extra money for doing audits involved. A few times there was a modest in-house luncheon for auditors.