Consultant Auditing Qualifications Requirements

[Jen Kirley]

It could be Al - the response is the same. When you are taught by CBs you see auditing only through 3rd party eyes...

Actually I teach on behalf of two CBs and see auditing through the internal auditor's eyes. I was an internal auditor for several years and have never forgotten the perspective. I work hard to teach for the Internal Auditor's role.

The thing is, the meaning of the standard and how to audit is not different. We still do process audits, look for demonstration of conformance to requirements, etc.

I should point out that registration bodies (CBs) give both Internal Auditor and Lead Auditor courses. Some offer both accredited and non-accredited Internal Auditor courses.

 

[AndyN]

We still do process audits,

Which "We" are you referring to? I have yet to see the results of a CB audit (with my clients) where processes were audited. Many don't audit to "requirements" and all don't report anything on effectiveness although that's a requirement. Maybe you do teach through the eyes of an internal auditor, however, there are quite a few (significant) differences in audits done internally and externally - there has to be.

 

[Jen Kirley]

Which "We" are you referring to? I have yet to see the results of a CB audit (with my clients) where processes were audited. Many don't audit to "requirements" and all don't report anything on effectiveness although that's a requirement. Maybe you do teach through the eyes of an internal auditor, however, there are quite a few (significant) differences in audits done internally and externally - there has to be.

I can only vouch for my own CB. Not having been with you or seen the documentation, it is hard to comment further or draw judgments about other CBs. The exception is, of course the CBs I was audited by as an internal auditor and document control admin. My peers do process auditing, and do report on effectiveness; I have seen previous reports from another CB that also reports effectiveness review. It seems we have very different exposure to the activities of CB auditors. I just haven't seen these atrocities you keep referring to.

It would be nice to have attended an Internal Auditor training so I can compare them side by side. Not having done so, it is not reasonable for me to judge their relative value as you have done. You have taken both courses, I suppose?

 

[AndyN]

You have taken both courses, I suppose?

Taken, delivered (hundreds of times) written and had accredited (often as the benchmark for everyone else who followed under the RABQSA process). Yes.

 

[skb76]

Andy, I think skb is trying to say, send someone to an internal auditing class given by a registration body, not a lead auditor class.

Rosen

YES! that what I mean; just training course for Internal Audit .. ( coz' 'beside' regarding this issue in this post, the External Audit (in future audit) will come with question.. 'how competent your Internal Auditor to run the Internal Audit in respect of clause 9.2)

 

[ranjit3219]

We are a small plastics manufacturer that has made the decision to become registered to ISO9001:2015. We have found a consultant to help us become registered.

My questions are:
Since the consultant is training us to do our internal audits should the consultant be a qualified auditor? does the ISO9001:2015 standard require that the auditor trainer be a qualified auditor? If so what are the qualifications?

We had another person tell us that the consultant must be a formally qualified auditor.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Dear PRI,

The internal audits are conducted as per ISO 19011:2011. Yes, your consultant needs to be at-least a "certified" internal auditor for ISO 9001:2015 and should be having some knowledge of ISO 19011 (certificate of awarness course so that he can design the course for your organization). This training you for Internal audits. This process just establishes the trainers (consultants in this case) qualification.
Hope it helps.

 

[Jen Kirley]

Dear PRI,

The internal audits are conducted as per ISO 19011:2011. Yes, your consultant needs to be at-least a "certified" internal auditor for ISO 9001:2015 and should be having some knowledge of ISO 19011 (certificate of awarness course so that he can design the course for your organization). This training you for Internal audits. This process just establishes the trainers (consultants in this case) qualification.
Hope it helps.

Much as I would like to agree, ISO 9011:2011 is a guidance document. As such, the requirement you cite is not a clear "shall."

 

[Eredhel]

I took an internal audit course several years ago. I was fortunate to have an excellent teacher and I learned a lot about how to look at the standard in the context of the organization. Those opportunities are out there.

Back on subject, I fall into the, "No you don't have to be certified" camp.

 

[tony s]

Yes, your consultant needs to be at-least a "certified" internal auditor for ISO 9001:2015

There is no shall also to back up this statement.

 

[Randy]

But have you attended an upgrade training to ISO 9001:2015? If not, you're not competent to do what you're claiming. Wait a second! Am I infected by somebody else?

Sorry but you're incorrect in your assumption....Competency is no more than demonstrated ability to apply knowledge and skill, and attending a class training class does not make one competent...In fact I've seen many folks conduct very good audits with very good results without some kind of certification.

The only absolute requirement for upgrade training to ISO 9001:2015 was for 3rd party CB types (like me) and that mandate has long since ceased to exist.