Consultant not following Process Approach

[Jeorg]

John,
You are sooo right!

 

[Jim Wynne]

Maybe my exposure has been to the bottom side . But it is what it is. Please don't take it personal. I don't know you and I am not judging anyone.

I can understand, in a way. I did not understand the process approach for 3 years after it was introduced. Yes, I was doing Registrar audits. But no one else at our registrar understood it either. I can't tell you why it finally dawned on me.

Whether you like it or not, whether you take it personal or not, it is what it is. I suggest you do your own little investigation, auditor style. In other words, don't ask them if they understand the process approach, ask questions that will show evidence that they get it.
I think you will be shocked. I was. But I did feel better that I wasn't the only one that didn't get it right away.

There are relatively few systems based on the PA, and it would be pointless to audit using the PA if the system isn't built that way. For most people, the PA is evidenced by an infractuous amalgam of symbols, lines and arrows called a turtle diagram and that's the extent of it.

 

[JaneB]

For most people, the PA is evidenced by an infractuous amalgam of symbols, lines and arrows called a turtle diagram and that's the extent of it.

Infractuous, huh?

Did you by any chance mean 'infructuous'?

I prefer words in more common use, meself, but far be it from me to dictate to others who like to embellish and enlarge their vocabulary.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Infractuous, huh?

Did you by any chance mean 'infructuous'?

I prefer words in more common use, meself, but far be it from me to dictate to others who like to embellish and enlarge their vocabulary.

I could have said "...an infructuous, infractuous amalgam..."

 

[Roger1723]

Good day, all. I have been following the forums for years, but have never posted. I am the Quality Manager for an electrical cable and harness manufacturer working toward our ISO 9001:2008 and 13485 certification. Having gone through my first ISO certification with another company in 2002, I I do have some experience. My concern is that I am working with a consultant who isn't following the process approach. We are 5 months into this and have not identified key processes. Also, he is not planning to train the internal auditors in the process approach. I was under the impression that this approach was necessary for receiving certification. I would appreciate any advice you can give me. Thanks so much.

I am a consultant that in the last 18 months got 6 companies registered to ISO 9001. Six companies, six different registrars, six different auditors. All six auditors did their audits from a process approach, all six were pleased to see internal audits done from a process approach.

You have a problem that needs to be addressed soon. I am guessing your consultant does not have sufficient experience/understanding to guide you in this area.