Consulting ? Is it in YOUR Career Future?

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Re: Consulting – Is it in YOUR Career Future?

<snippage>
In quality documents, an eisegesis example may be where a management representative (for ISO registration) reads this passage
"4.2.3 Control of Documents
Documents required by the quality management system shall be controlled."

and decides that "control" means all documents must funnel through him and no one in the organization may possess or even read any document in the system without his express permission. He simply ignores other phrases in the Standard and guidance documents which go on to explain the controls are only those necessary to the organization's purposes and most folks would understand differences in level of security required by different organizations, but we still have folks who want to impose "top secret" status on the process for sealing shipping cartons of nuts and bolts.
"Isogesis" is just a common misspelling of "eisegesis," common mostly to Christian apologists. They are not two different terms. The "isogesis" spelling may have become common enough to find its way into dictionaries, but if so it will almost certainly be denoted as a variant spelling.

In 20+ years of dealing with ISO 9001, QS9000 and ISO/TS 16949 I have never seen or heard of anyone treating documentation as described above. How could such a situation happen if it's necessary for relevant documents to be available at points of use (ISO 9001:2008, 4.2.3[d])?

Surely there are situations where overly narrow or even completely wrong interpretations are applied to QMS standards. We see examples here all the time. Usually, though, they aren't wrong to the extent that a nonconformity results from the interpretation. It's possible to apply an eisegesic interpretation to a clause of the standard and still be in conformance with it. Management review is a good example; many think that a formal meeting is required.

If a consultant is to have any value in QMS implementation, she needs to have an experiential basis in understanding the fine line between minimal conformity and use of the standard as a basis for making things better. There are a lot of poseurs who read the standard and think they know what needs to be known and don't need no stinkin' experience. Caveat emptor.
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
Re: Consulting – Is it in YOUR Career Future?

"Isogesis" is just a common misspelling of "eisegesis," common mostly to Christian apologists. They are not two different terms. The "isogesis" spelling may have become common enough to find its way into dictionaries, but if so it will almost certainly be denoted as a variant spelling.

In 20+ years of dealing with ISO 9001, QS9000 and ISO/TS 16949 I have never seen or heard of anyone treating documentation as described above. How could such a situation happen if it's necessary for relevant documents to be available at points of use (ISO 9001:2008, 4.2.3[d])?

Surely there are situations where overly narrow or even completely wrong interpretations are applied to QMS standards. We see examples here all the time. Usually, though, they aren't wrong to the extent that a nonconformity results from the interpretation. It's possible to apply an eisegesic interpretation to a clause of the standard and still be in conformance with it. Management review is a good example; many think that a formal meeting is required.

If a consultant is to have any value in QMS implementation, she needs to have an experiential basis in understanding the fine line between minimal conformity and use of the standard as a basis for making things better. There are a lot of poseurs who read the standard and think they know what needs to be known and don't need no stinkin' experience. Caveat emptor.
Certainly you are aware of the control freaks who want users of documents to sign for a new copy each shift and oversee the destruction of the copy from the previous shift even though the version being used hasn't changed in 10 years. I'd like a nickel for every rubber stamp ever made which reads "uncontrolled copy" - we could probably keep the Chrysler Motor factory open in Kenosha for an extra week!;)

Those same poseurs may need no stinkin' experience, but a lot of them have badges that read "consultant" just like real consultants! Our experience here in the Cove with the fallout from those incompetent poseurs provides a lot of empirical data that the bad work of the poseurs stinks even though they have no stinkin' experience.

:topic:re: isogesis and eisegesis - care to share a reference citation?
All my info on those words is based on 40+ year old memory - Bible study is definitely not one of my vocations or avocations. If I remember a verse or two, it's from rote learning in Sunday School over 60 years ago.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Re: Consulting – Is it in YOUR Career Future?

Certainly you are aware of the control freaks who want users of documents to sign for a new copy each shift and oversee the destruction of the copy from the previous shift even though the version being used hasn't changed in 10 years.
No, I've never seen anyone ask people to sign for relevant documents and then collect them at the end of the shift. In paper-based systems, it might make sense to have people sign for copies, or at least keep a record of who has them so that those copies can be located and retrieved in the event of changes.

I'd like a nickel for every rubber stamp ever made which reads "uncontrolled copy" - we could probably keep the Chrysler Motor factory open in Kenosha for an extra week!;)
There's nothing wrong with stamping a paper copy "uncontrolled," so long as the document control system accounts for it and its use is moderated. One such use might be in training materials, where the substance of the document is irrelevant.

:topic:re: isogesis and eisegesis - care to share a reference citation?
It's not easy to provide a citation to something that doesn't officially exist, as is the case with "isogesis." I have four different dictionaries in the house, and that spelling appears in none of them, nor can I find it in any online dictionaries. The only place I've ever seen it is in religious apologetics contexts where the general subject of hermeneutics is being discussed.
 
P

PGTIPS8

Re: Consulting – Is it in YOUR Career Future?

I have read several thread links on the consulting viz contractor viz advisor etal1 But how did one get started on this carrer path, sound a silly question but might have to be an option soon! perhapse I should consult a consultant for advice on contracting.:lol: But seriously chaps pointers would help.:bigwave:
 
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TanyaVDWalt

Re: Consulting – Is it in YOUR Career Future?

I know it is quite a couple of years ago since your post, but here goes anyway.

I clearly understand the difference between contracting & consulting..

The very harsh point you are trying to get across that besides all of this knowledge I might have on Quality etc. The make or break of Consulting Business will be based on how strong our Selling skills, Business Management an ultimately our Customer Satisfaction is.

Am I getting this right?
 
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tomvehoski

Re: Consulting – Is it in YOUR Career Future?

You need to analyze the market too. The best salesperson in the best managed firm with 100% customer satisfaction selling snowmobiles is not going to succeed in Hawaii. The first thing you should look at is the demand for consulting in your market, and what exactly those customers need.
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
Re: Consulting – Is it in YOUR Career Future?

I know it is quite a couple of years ago since your post, but here goes anyway.

I clearly understand the difference between contracting & consulting..

The very harsh point you are trying to get across that besides all of this knowledge I might have on Quality etc. The make or break of Consulting Business will be based on how strong our Selling skills, Business Management an ultimately our Customer Satisfaction is.

Am I getting this right?
Those are definitely important factors, but not all, as tomvehoski says below.

You need to analyze the market too. The best salesperson in the best managed firm with 100% customer satisfaction selling snowmobiles is not going to succeed in Hawaii. The first thing you should look at is the demand for consulting in your market, and what exactly those customers need.
Yep. Consulting is a business. A start-up needs capital, a workable business plan, and a reasonable time table to reach break-even point. Sadly, even the very best consultants have been hurt badly by the economic downturn now in its third year.

The beauty of consulting is that, for the most part, it is NOT geographically based. Just as some of our road warrior ISO auditors put on thousands and thousands of air miles, so, too, do many consultants. Having an aversion to travel, sometimes for weeks at a time, is a serious impediment for some people contemplating careers as consultants or specialty contractors (the kind of folks who are auditors or who do installations of specialized equipment, rarely staying for more than a few weeks in any one location - depending on scheduling.)

I want to continue to point out that working as a contractor or temping in one location for an extended period (months, even years) is a viable alternate for folks who don't have sufficient capital to fund a start-up or who lack business savvy and connections to find new clients on a regular basis. It is also a great way to pick up experience and knowledge about businesses while someone else pays for your time.

I've also mentioned working for contracting agencies. Most agencies serve an important function in the business world - filling employment gaps short term for organizations. There are a few, however, which gouge both employer and worker. If you are a contractor who obtains work through agencies, you should be aware of how to protect yourself from these few exploiters. If you aren't, start a new thread and we'll take up the topic.
 
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JaredMathews

Hey this seems to be a nice an informative post to read about specially with regards to the career prospect..
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
Re: Consulting – Is it in YOUR Career Future?

I have a question about naming a startup consultancy.

It's not rhetorical. I am set to start establishing a consultancy in which I offer services in management systems setup and auditing, human performance management, measuring results, balanced scorecards, and training. My focus is on organizations of all sizes and I eventually want to establish myself Corporate Social Responsibility in particular.

In addition my husband will eventually take part as an IT systems consultant for small business.

I have been thinking about a name for the business (for profit). I wanted to ask my friends here what they think about 4M Business Services with the tag line Man+Material+Machine+Management=RESULTS.

4mbusinessservices.com is available as a domain name. So is 4mservices.com.

Those who do not know me well can get to know me through my Stealth Quality Series articles. Since a name should communicate a brand I thought it might be helpful to direct you to them.

What is your opinion?
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
Re: Consulting – Is it in YOUR Career Future?

I have a question about naming a startup consultancy.

It's not rhetorical. I am set to start establishing a consultancy in which I offer services in management systems setup and auditing, human performance management, measuring results, balanced scorecards, and training. My focus is on organizations of all sizes and I eventually want to establish myself Corporate Social Responsibility in particular.

In addition my husband will eventually take part as an IT systems consultant for small business.

I have been thinking about a name for the business (for profit). I wanted to ask my friends here what they think about 4M Business Services with the tag line Man+Material+Machine+Management=RESULTS.

4mbusinessservices.com is available as a domain name. So is 4mservices.com.

Those who do not know me well can get to know me through my Stealth Quality Series articles. Since a name should communicate a brand I thought it might be helpful to direct you to them.

What is your opinion?

Congratulations with your decision to go out on your own.
I made the decision 25+ years ago and never looked back. :agree1:

I would go with 5M Services. I added Mother Nature (= Environment).
Your logo could be a graphics play on the 5 sources of variation:
Man-Machine-Methods-Material-Mother Nature.

Just an idea.

Stijloor.
 
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