Continual Improvement vs. Ineffective Actions

ShortFatBloke

Starting to get Involved
#1
A small scenario:

I collect metrics on my right first time results. When I first implement my KPI, my target is 80% but my actual is 75%. I put in place some corrective actions to improve.

I am now audited against AS9100 Rev C and the process is marked on the PEAR as a level 3 (implemented; results not achieved but appropriate actions taken). The auditor makes this an observation (I know - bear with me).

12 months go by and the auditor returns. He gets to the process, marks me down as a level 3, checks his notes (where he has the observation which show that I was level 3 last time) and he writes me up with a Major for ineffective corrective actions.

If my metrics show that I am still below my 80% target, then this is acceptable, I deserve the N/C.

If, however, during the 12 months, my metrics start coming back at 85% (woo-hoo!) and I raise the bar up to 90% in the spirit of continual improvement and all things SixSigma, should I still get the N/C?

According to an auditor from one of the CBs - yes, it's a non-conformance.

Thoughts?
 
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John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Continual Improvement vs Ineffective Actions

A small scenario:

I collect metrics on my right first time results. When I first implement my KPI, my target is 80% but my actual is 75%. I put in place some corrective actions to improve.

I am now audited against AS9100 Rev C and the process is marked on the PEAR as a level 3 (implemented; results not achieved but appropriate actions taken). The auditor makes this an observation (I know - bear with me).

12 months go by and the auditor returns. He gets to the process, marks me down as a level 3, checks his notes (where he has the observation which show that I was level 3 last time) and he writes me up with a Major for ineffective corrective actions.

If my metrics show that I am still below my 80% target, then this is acceptable, I deserve the N/C.

If, however, during the 12 months, my metrics start coming back at 85% (woo-hoo!) and I raise the bar up to 90% in the spirit of continual improvement and all things SixSigma, should I still get the N/C?

According to an auditor from one of the CBs - yes, it's a non-conformance.

Thoughts?
SFB,

Waiting to fail the target then take corrective action is a failure to take preventive action (a nonconformity).

Why not issue a PAR with the more challenging target so the system is changed to assure fulfillment of the new target?

John
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: Continual Improvement vs Ineffective Actions

A small scenario:

I collect metrics on my right first time results. When I first implement my KPI, my target is 80% but my actual is 75%. I put in place some corrective actions to improve.

I am now audited against AS9100 Rev C and the process is marked on the PEAR as a level 3 (implemented; results not achieved but appropriate actions taken). The auditor makes this an observation (I know - bear with me).

12 months go by and the auditor returns. He gets to the process, marks me down as a level 3, checks his notes (where he has the observation which show that I was level 3 last time) and he writes me up with a Major for ineffective corrective actions.

If my metrics show that I am still below my 80% target, then this is acceptable, I deserve the N/C.

If, however, during the 12 months, my metrics start coming back at 85% (woo-hoo!) and I raise the bar up to 90% in the spirit of continual improvement and all things SixSigma, should I still get the N/C?

According to an auditor from one of the CBs - yes, it's a non-conformance.

Thoughts?
Not an aerospace expert, but...

When you refer to having established a KPI target, is this the way the process should be performing at the time the target is determined, or at some indeterminate time in the future? If the former is true, it seems to me that either your targets are wrong or your process isn't performing as expected. If that's the case, then you evinced the same failure twice, no?

On the other hand, if the KPI target is a goal to be realized sometime in the future, and you have in hand a plan to get there, and the plan is evidentially in progress, I'd say you might have an argument.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: Continual Improvement vs Ineffective Actions

...snip...12 months go by and the auditor returns. He gets to the process, marks me down as a level 3, checks his notes (where he has the observation which show that I was level 3 last time) and he writes me up with a Major for ineffective corrective actions....snip....According to an auditor from one of the CBs - yes, it's a non-conformance.

Thoughts?
AS9101D requires the CB auditor to write a major non-conformity against your corrective action process, in case you have similar NC's during consecutive audits. Could this be the case here? Or, and once again, could it be the case of an auditor that is stretching beyond the rules?

If you really would like help, you should transpose the actual NC statement here (duly sanitized) for us to review it's validity. Any NC must be associated with a valid requirement. Your auditor must have identified the requirement against which the NC was being raised.
 
Last edited:

ShortFatBloke

Starting to get Involved
#5
Re: Continual Improvement vs Ineffective Actions

Thanks for the responses - Thankfully it wasn't as part of an audit but part of a lunch time discussion during a pre-assessment visit. I think that this may be one of those things that hasn't really been thought through too well :)
 
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