Definition Continuous Improvement and Continual Improvement - Differences

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
That is great Jim, I like it! It gets a bit tricky when you try and describe something as continualously happening, but I think I have got right (?) :notme:
The fact that the word is difficult to pronounce is a feature, not a defect. It means that people won't use it so often. :tg:
 
B

brahmaiah

Re: Is there any difference between Continuous and continual Improvements ?

From Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary
CONTINUAL
1 : continuing indefinitely in time without interruption <continual fear>
2 : recurring in steady usually rapid succession <a history of continual invasions>
–con·tin·u·al·ly adverb
synonyms: CONTINUAL, CONTINUOUS, CONSTANT, INCESSANT, PERPETUAL, PERENNIAL mean characterized by continued occurrence or recurrence. CONTINUAL often implies a close prolonged succession or recurrence <continual showers the whole weekend>. CONTINUOUS usually implies an uninterrupted flow or spatial extension <football's oldest continuous rivalry>.

CONTINUOUS
Synonyms: CONTINUAL, ceaseless, constant, endless, everlasting, interminable, perpetual, timeless, unceasing, unending
1 : marked by uninterrupted extension in space, time, or sequence
2 of a function : having the property that the absolute value of the numerical difference between the value at a given point and the value at any point in a neighborhood of the given point can be made as close to zero as desired by choosing the neighborhood small enough
synonyms see CONTINUAL

Hence NO DIFFERENCE.
True both words carry same meaning in common usage.But the QMS standard seems to see a difference.It has repeated the word'continual'15 times.
V.J.Brahmaiah
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
Re: Is there any difference between Continuous and continual Improvements ?

True both words carry same meaning in common usage.But the QMS standard seems to see a difference. It has repeated the word 'continual' 15 times.
V.J.Brahmaiah

Yes, but to steal Jim Wynne's term; this has been discussed continualously, and we have seen no difference. ;)

Stijloor.
 
B

brahmaiah

Re: Is there any difference between Continuous and continual Improvements ?

Yes, but to steal Jim Wynne's term; this has been discussed continualously, and we have seen no difference. ;)

Stijloor.
I want to stop this continuous discussion on the meaning of the wrrd 'continual' by quoting a dictionary meaning as follows:



QUOTE:
"con⋅tin⋅u⋅al
http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/C07/C0794300/kənˈtɪn yu əl/ http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.htmlShow Spelled Pronunciation [kuh n-tin-yoo-uh l] http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.htmlShow IPA
Use continual in a Sentence
See web results for continual
See images of continual
–adjective
1.
of regular or frequent recurrence; often repeated; very frequent: continual bus departures.


2.
happening without interruption or cessation; continuous in time.

Origin:
1300–50; < ML continuālis, equiv. to L continu(us) continuous + -ālis -al 1 ; r. ME continuel < MF < L, as above

Related forms:
continuality, continualness, noun

Synonyms:
1. successive, recurrent, repetitive, repetitious. 2. unceasing, ceaseless, incessant, uninterrupted, unremitting, unbroken, permanent, unending.
Usage note:
Although usage guides generally advise that
continual may be used only to mean “intermittent” and continuous only to mean “uninterrupted,” the words are used interchangeably in all kinds of speech and writing with no distinction in meaning: The President's life is under continual (or continuous) scrutiny. Continuous (or continual) bursts of laughter punctuated her testimony. The adverbs continually and continuously are also used interchangeably. To make a clear distinction between what occurs at short intervals and what proceeds without interruption, writers sometimes use the contrasting terms intermittent (intermittent losses of power during the storm) and uninterrupted (uninterrupted reception during the storm) or similar expressions. Continuous is not interchangeable with continual in the sense of spatial relationship: a continuous (not continual) series of passages.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009. "UNQUOTE


Note the highlighted para which supports my interpretation of the word.
V.J.Brahmaiah
 

AndyN

Moved On
The fact of the matter is that to steadfastly defend such a (minor) difference does our profession no good, especially in the eyes of management! It matters not that you can split hairs over a definition! What matters - as far as management are concerned - is results. They get measured by results and care not about the minor differences in how you get them! It's all very well to adopt a highly principled position and quote references! Management don't operate that way!

I'd commend anyone who claims to be a quality professional to stop debating terminology and to start talking to management in terms they understand! That way we, as a profession can move forward instead of complaining that "bosses" don't get it!
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
The fact of the matter is that to steadfastly defend such a (minor) difference does our profession no good, especially in the eyes of management! It matters not that you can split hairs over a definition! What matters - as far as management are concerned - is results. They get measured by results and care not about the minor differences in how you get them! It's all very well to adopt a highly principled position and quote references! Management don't operate that way!

I'd commend anyone who claims to be a quality professional to stop debating terminology and to start talking to management in terms they understand! That way we, as a profession can move forward instead of complaining that "bosses" don't get it!
Agree - I also caution against taking one of those split hairs and declaring it is almost never - indeed, close to can't - being done. What matters is that people set about constantly trying to do better. Boom, that's it. I don't care what you call it, and indeed most people won't know the difference between the two terms because they are so closely related.
 
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J

JaneB

The fact of the matter is that to steadfastly defend such a (minor) difference does our profession no good, especially in the eyes of management! It matters not that you can split hairs over a definition! What matters - as far as management are concerned - is results. They get measured by results and care not about the minor differences in how you get them! It's all very well to adopt a highly principled position and quote references! Management don't operate that way!

I'd commend anyone who claims to be a quality professional to stop debating terminology and to start talking to management in terms they understand! That way we, as a profession can move forward instead of complaining that "bosses" don't get it!
That's such excellent advice, Andy, that I couldn't avoid quoting it in full. You are SO right - mostly, management just doesn't give a hoot about relatively fine distinctions, such as between continuous and continual. Yes, they are different, and yes, a dictionary will define those distinctions, and yes, quality professionals may (perhaps) know the difference between them. But spending a lot of time debating such distinctions is NOT where the biggest results lie, and most certainly won't get managment on side.

What matters is that people set about constantly trying to do better. Boom, that's it. I don't care what you call it, and indeed most people won't know the difference between the two terms because they are so closely related.
I don't care much what it's called either. If someone asks, I'll give 'em a quick definition, but put the focus, as you say so well, on the importance of trying to do better - ie, the improvement. Who really cares if someone says it's done 'continuously' vs 'continually'??

It's no wonder at times that management, both at top and middle, find it hard to understand what 'quality' is on about if it spends time looking for hairs to split, rather than focussing on results and outcomes which is where those who really 'get' quality do.
 
M

Migre

The fact of the matter is that to steadfastly defend such a (minor) difference does our profession no good, especially in the eyes of management! It matters not that you can split hairs over a definition! What matters - as far as management are concerned - is results. They get measured by results and care not about the minor differences in how you get them! It's all very well to adopt a highly principled position and quote references! Management don't operate that way!

I'd commend anyone who claims to be a quality professional to stop debating terminology and to start talking to management in terms they understand! That way we, as a profession can move forward instead of complaining that "bosses" don't get it!


That (along with Jennifer and Jane's follow-ups) really should be the end of this topic - beautifully summed up and the most relevant and important post I've seen in a long time. Strip away the pointlessness of this debate and speak in a language that everyone (especially Management) will understand. And you're right Jane - I make no apologies for quoting Andy's text in full once again.
 
S

samsung

That (along with Jennifer and Jane's follow-ups) really should be the end of this topic - beautifully summed up and the most relevant and important post I've seen in a long time.

Rightly said. This should be the end of this topic since it cannot be stretched continualously any more.
 
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