Contracted Internal Auditors - Outsourcing Internal Audits

D
#1
:bigwave: My organization is currently accredited to ISO 9001, ISO/TS 16949 and ISO 17025. I have increasing difficulty fining experienced internal auditors for all of these needs.

Before I contact my CB and present my decision, I though I would ask a few questions of the forum.

1. Are there any requirements that would not allow me to contract some or all of my internal auditors? I'm not aware of any.
2. Are there specific requirements for internal auditors above and beyond ISO 19011.
3. What are your experiences, good and bad?


:thanx:
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Re: Contracted Internal Auditors

You can use contracted internal auditors for all of the above. We have performed internal audits, by contract for each. That said..... You must make sure the contracted internal auditor meets customer specific requirements as well, as what is posted in each standard. In almost every case, the registrar wanted to see our credentials, and proof we met CSR (especially Ford).

On a side note. We had one particular 3rd party auditor question 3 separate clients. Although he knew we met the requirements, he wanted to see if the company had taken steps to ensure we met Ford's requirments for internal auditors.
 
J

JHagani

#3
Re: Contracted Internal Auditors

I don't see any problem contracting internal auditors.
I have made a deal with another company, and we lende our internal auditors to each other as needed, no money exchanged.

Actually this could be more beneficial, because of less bias, and no conflict of interest.

Good luck.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Re: Contracted Internal Auditors

:bigwave: My organization is currently accredited to ISO 9001, ISO/TS 16949 and ISO 17025. I have increasing difficulty fining experienced internal auditors for all of these needs.

Before I contact my CB and present my decision, I though I would ask a few questions of the forum.

1. Are there any requirements that would not allow me to contract some or all of my internal auditors? I'm not aware of any.
You can outsource internal audits to competent auditors. Buyer beware!
2. Are there specific requirements for internal auditors above and beyond ISO 19011?
The auditors should be qualified and competent to audit the requirements of the respective standards. I know of CB auditors who also perform internal audits at companies that are not Clients of the CB for which they work.
3. What are your experiences, good and bad?
I can only speak as a guy who performs internal audits on my clients' behalf. So, providing you with experiences is difficult for me. My personal experience is very positive, even though I would like for my Clients to take more ownership and responsibility for their own internal audit process. It is something I am worried about and I certainly point that out to my Clients prior to accepting the assignment.
Stijloor.
 
#5
Re: Contracted Internal Auditors

I don't see any problem contracting internal auditors.
I have made a deal with another company, and we lende our internal auditors to each other as needed, no money exchanged.

Actually this could be more beneficial, because of less bias, and no conflict of interest.
There is also a political side to internal auditing that tends to lead to bias (be easy on top management, so I still keep my job). By trading internal auditors, you lose a bit of that. Plus, if the companies agree, and if they get along well, then you could use continual improvement ideas at the one place to improve processes at the other. Kinda like using each other to benchmark certain processes.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#6

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Re: Contracted Internal Auditors

There is also a political side to internal auditing that tends to lead to bias (be easy on top management, so I still keep my job). By trading internal auditors, you lose a bit of that. Plus, if the companies agree, and if they get along well, then you could use continual improvement ideas at the one place to improve processes at the other. Kinda like using each other to benchmark certain processes.
db, excellent points!

As an outside person, fear is less of a factor. You can diplomatically "tell it like it is" without concern of losing your job. The only thing that can happen is that an upset manager may ask you not to come back. ;)

Stijloor.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#8
#9
I've been pretty successful at having internal audits outsourced to me. In the past I've had the pleasure of being recommended by a CB auditor, to their client who had outsourced the audits, and the guy wasn't following the process approach. The CB auditor had seen my 'football' in play (pun intended) and had seen it work made his recommendation based on that.

Recently, I was asked to quote on doing a company's internal audits, which I'm happy to do. Better still, why not outsource the whole audit program management, because, often, management get sticker shock paying that much for something they really don't want to do.......
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#10
:bigwave: My organization is currently accredited to ISO 9001, ISO/TS 16949 and ISO 17025. I have increasing difficulty fining experienced internal auditors for all of these needs.

Before I contact my CB and present my decision, I though I would ask a few questions of the forum.

1. Are there any requirements that would not allow me to contract some or all of my internal auditors? I'm not aware of any.
2. Are there specific requirements for internal auditors above and beyond ISO 19011.
3. What are your experiences, good and bad?


:thanx:

You might find it difficult to find many contractors who have all 3 standards - the 17025 makes it a bit of a mix. I could help you with the TS 16949 and ISO 9001, and meet the Ford requirements as well. I am near PGH, so there might be a good fit there. I can also just give you some general guidance, if you'd like. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
 
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