Definition Control - Conditions for "under control" - Definition

[01mercy]

Hi all,

At the moment I come across a very basic issue.
How is "control" defined and what are the conditions for being "under control"?
I have looked at ISO9000 but couldn't find a definition of it.

What is meant with control (short simple definition) and
when in something considered "under control" what are the conditions?

It's not that I intuitively don't know but I want to be able to explain it to colleagues in a good manner.
I want to come to an explanation which I can use in a practical way.

Below the example from which my question arises.
We have a QMS computer folder structure for documentation control and other quality process data to track/register.
Now our sales person uses one-note for CRM/SRM and I would prefer to have a excel register within the QMS computer folder to register the customer requirements to have that tracked and accessible for all in a central way.
During the discussion it became apparent to me that I don't know how to determine if the one-note system that is set up is a controlled system for CRM/SRM (at least the requirements) since I don't know the conditions for "under control"

Thanks.

 

[John Broomfield]

Re: Control / Conditions for "under control" - Definition

mercy,

This may work for you as it has for me.

"Establishing and meeting a requirement" is control.

Just meeting a requirement is luck.

For control there has to be intent.

John

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Control / Conditions for "under control" - Definition

What is meant with control (short simple definition) and when in something considered "under control" what are the conditions?

It's not that I intuitively don't know but I want to be able to explain it to colleagues in a good manner.

Mercy, first you have to specify control of what?

If you are, for example, talking about document CONTROL, the minimum control levels in ISO 9001 are defined in clause 4.2.3 a) through g).

If you are talking about product realization process CONTROL, the requirements for control are listed under 7.5.1 a) through f).

You can also check the guidance on the term control from the Guidance on some of the frequently used words found in the ISO 9000 family of standards, available @ https://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/3553791/Terminology.doc?func=doc.Fetch&nodeid=3553791

 

[01mercy]

Re: Control / Conditions for "under control" - Definition

Dear John and Sidney,

Thanks for your reply.

"To control" would than be: Establish a process to meet a requirement
Being "under control" would than be: Being able to show that you are able to fulfil the requirement


So looking at my practical example... I look at par 7.2 of ISO9001 and I see nothing about control in this par. I'm actually looking for a statement in the standard that links the control of determination of requirements to documentation control (practically speaking that communicated requirement from the customer by email are registered in such way that it makes communication of the (changed) requiments possible in a controlled (control of this registration and communication process) possible and that we don't have the risk that it remains latent in someones mailbox or some private storage).
The only thing I find in ISO9001 that relates to that is section 4.2.3 f) especially the part of controlled distribution since that would mean that the registration of the requirements communicated by a customer are part of a controlled process.

How do you see this? Or do I overlook a vital part in ISO9001 that states that requirements should be determined and available in a controlled way? I think that should be of utmost importance because it's the base of controlling your agreements with customers and controlling to which requirements you agree the product will comply.

Input is welcome

 

[John Broomfield]

Re: Control / Conditions for "under control" - Definition

Dear John and Sidney,

Thanks for your reply.

"To control" would than be: Establish a process to meet a requirement
Being "under control" would than be: Being able to show that you are able to fulfil the requirement


So looking at my practical example... I look at par 7.2 of ISO9001 and I see nothing about control in this par. I'm actually looking for a statement in the standard that links the control of determination of requirements to documentation control (practically speaking that communicated requirement from the customer by email are registered in such way that it makes communication of the (changed) requiments possible in a controlled (control of this registration and communication process) possible and that we don't have the risk that it remains latent in someones mailbox or some private storage).
The only thing I find in ISO9001 that relates to that is section 4.2.3 f) especially the part of controlled distribution since that would mean that the registration of the requirements communicated by a customer are part of a controlled process.

How do you see this? Or do I overlook a vital part in ISO9001 that states that requirements should be determined and available in a controlled way? I think that should be of utmost importance because it's the base of controlling your agreements with customers and controlling to which requirements you agree the product will comply.

Input is welcome

mercy,

The standard specifies requirements for your management system. It is not reasonable to expect ISO 9001 to repeat this fact in every clause.

You refer to customer requirements. These requirements may not be documented. Just as a contract can exist without being documented. Nonetheless, the customer's requirements must be determined so they can be fulfilled. Even then the customer has a right to complain if the contract is incomplete of incorrect. Indeed, customers may not say this but they rely on the expertise of their supplier to advise them if their stated requirements are incomplete or incorrect.

Please provide an example where my recommended definition of control does not address your concern.

Many thanks,

John

 

[01mercy]

John,
Thank you.

To stay on topic,

Your definition of control works fine with me.

Are you ok with my definition for "under control"?

The question regarding the requirements is a bit of topic. I understand your answer however there must be something not rightly under control when we know the requirements but send out wrong product at the end. I must think of the actual process there what is not controlled enough to prevent that from happening.

Regards!

 

[John Broomfield]

mercy,

"Being "under control" would than be: Being able to show that you are able to fulfil the requirement"

This definition may lack sufficient evidence to declare that a process is "under control".

Showing that your process is repeatedly fulfilling requirements would, however, be sufficient.

Your definition is closer to quality assurance: providing confidence that requirements will be fulfilled.

John

 

[01mercy]

John than perhaps this will do:

Under control:
"A requirement being fulfilled against a defined set of constraints."

 

[John Broomfield]

John than perhaps this will do:

Under control:
"A requirement being fulfilled against a defined set of constraints."

mercy,

You could delete all your words after "fulfilled".

That would result in a simple and complete definition of "under control":

"a requirement being fulfilled"
​

John