Control of Detail Prints

M

M Caruso

#1
At our company we use what we call a "detail print". It is the blueprint for the building of a part. This document includes the mechanical configuration, bill of materials, processing procedure references, sequence of steps in building the parts, test parameters, marking, customer drawing reference (if applicable), and the shop routing reference number. When an order is processed, this detail print is copied and kept with the manufacturing order, and a copy is issued with each shop routing generated to fill the manufacturing order.
We are having our registration audit for AS9100 at the end of August. The problem that I have is, how do we prove control of these detail prints? With our document control, we have provisions for changing, reviewing and approving documents. When is comes to issueing documents, items like processing procedures and other specifications are issued to departments and work areas, signed for, and records kept for their release. However, the detail prints are handled differently because they are issued with orders, and we have literally tens of thousands of different detail prints, and thousands of orders in process at a time. We have a procedure for issueing changes to prints, and maintaining configuration control. We can show the current revision of the detail print with a shop routing and manufacturing lot matches the master on file, show the approval of the detail print, but how do we prove the controlled release of this document?
 
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Al Rosen

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
M Caruso said:
At our company we use what we call a "detail print". It is the blueprint for the building of a part. This document includes the mechanical configuration, bill of materials, processing procedure references, sequence of steps in building the parts, test parameters, marking, customer drawing reference (if applicable), and the shop routing reference number. When an order is processed, this detail print is copied and kept with the manufacturing order, and a copy is issued with each shop routing generated to fill the manufacturing order.
We are having our registration audit for AS9100 at the end of August. The problem that I have is, how do we prove control of these detail prints? With our document control, we have provisions for changing, reviewing and approving documents. When is comes to issueing documents, items like processing procedures and other specifications are issued to departments and work areas, signed for, and records kept for their release. However, the detail prints are handled differently because they are issued with orders, and we have literally tens of thousands of different detail prints, and thousands of orders in process at a time. We have a procedure for issueing changes to prints, and maintaining configuration control. We can show the current revision of the detail print with a shop routing and manufacturing lot matches the master on file, show the approval of the detail print, but how do we prove the controlled release of this document?
From what you have described, you don't have control. At any point in time, if a detail print undergoes a change, what happens to the copies previously issued?
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#3
If you scroll down to the bottom of the thread, you'll find links to some potentially helpful threads. Or try a search on engineering drawings or drawing control.

Because of our engineering drawings and the quantity, we decided to allow engineering to deveop their own process for controlling them. Their process. If they don't follow it, that's an issue. But it was better for them to develop a system that worked for them than to have them follow the document control process that works well for procedures and work instructions. :)
 
J

jmp4429

#4
Al Rosen said:
From what you have described, you don't have control. At any point in time, if a detail print undergoes a change, what happens to the copies previously issued?

If I'm reading this right, each copy issued is only valid for the work order it's attached to - could the OP add a statement on each detail print saying as much?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
M Caruso said:
We can show the current revision of the detail print with a shop routing and manufacturing lot matches the master on file, show the approval of the detail print, but how do we prove the controlled release of this document?
I'm not sure what you mean by "controlled release." Other than Al's concern about control of obsolete copies, it appears that you have some key elements of control in place (assurance that the copy in use matches the "master" and that the detail print has been duly appoved), so if you could explain "controlled release" it would help.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
M Caruso said:
At our company we use what we call a "detail print". It is the blueprint for the building of a part. This document includes the mechanical configuration, bill of materials, processing procedure references, sequence of steps in building the parts, test parameters, marking, customer drawing reference (if applicable), and the shop routing reference number. When an order is processed, this detail print is copied and kept with the manufacturing order, and a copy is issued with each shop routing generated to fill the manufacturing order.
We are having our registration audit for AS9100 at the end of August. The problem that I have is, how do we prove control of these detail prints? With our document control, we have provisions for changing, reviewing and approving documents. When is comes to issueing documents, items like processing procedures and other specifications are issued to departments and work areas, signed for, and records kept for their release. However, the detail prints are handled differently because they are issued with orders, and we have literally tens of thousands of different detail prints, and thousands of orders in process at a time. We have a procedure for issueing changes to prints, and maintaining configuration control. We can show the current revision of the detail print with a shop routing and manufacturing lot matches the master on file, show the approval of the detail print, but how do we prove the controlled release of this document?
I suspect you really do have control, but are a little vague in explaining and documenting how you maintain that control.

For example, I'm pretty sure your organization has NEVER (despite the thousands of orders) used the wrong set of detail prints to build an order. This isn't sheer luck - it means you do have control, but you haven't recognized exactly what that control is to document it.

I bet the real control (of the release) resides with the entity or department that issues the detail prints with each order. Exactly how does that department make the decision WHICH prints to issue? Once the packet is put together with a shop routing number, that number maintains the control over the entire packet. There isn't much help if a stray page gets separated from the package, but I also bet no one will pick that page up and stick it in another packet at random. If a work station discovers a missing page at a point in the processing of the order, I'm also sure the personnel know where to get an official replacement.

Probably one of the best tips I can give you today is to RELAX. Your operation is already effective. It already has controls. Your task is to take a deep breath and really look at exactly what you do so you can document it. Once documented, it can be audited to assure the process is maintained.

In my experience, most organizations who are operating successfully already incorporate most of the factors of a good quality management system. Sometimes, the guy charged with the task of getting registered to a Standard has a little twinge of panic, thinking of the auditors for the Standard as big, bad, boogeymen.

The folks who visit here at the Cove have some bad experiences with auditors, but on the whole, most audits are very humdrum and straightforward. Most auditors are not in business to play "gotcha" - they just want to see that the organization and its personnel understand how the organization processes relate to the Standard.

I see the majority of your posts are related to the aerospace Standard. Good luck! We are glad to be a sounding board to help you over this hump on your road to registration.
 
M

M Caruso

#7
When a print undergoes a change, a change notice is issued by Engineering to Production Control with a copy of the newest revision so that Production Control can check the Work in Progress and replace the prints with the manufacturing lots in WIP. Unless... the change is significant, then the lots are swept and disposition made.

I am concerned with the fact that when I pick up a shop routing with a manufacturing lot, unless I physically check the drawer where the master print is kept, there is no way for me to know that the revision of the print in my hand is really the latest and greatest. Our shop routings only have customer part number drawing revisions (when applicable), but not internal part number print revisions.
But, as Wes suggested, maybe I am stressing out over nothing and just need to relax and just make sure our current procedures are accurately documented. I am not worried about our auditor, he has already came to give us a readiness review and believes we are ready based on what he has read and seen. I am just getting ready by trying to look for things that don't seem to conform to the standard or may be questioned and am trying to sort them out.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
M Caruso said:
I am just getting ready by trying to look for things that don't seem to conform to the standard or may be questioned and am trying to sort them out.
I think Wes's advice was good in general, but I would add that your first concern should be for good product, not for ISO, or the auditor, or anything else (although those things are important too, obviously). If you feel something ain't right and has the potential to cause problems, you should consider fixing it.
 
J

Jim Howe

#9
configuration control

M Caruso said:
When a print undergoes a change, a change notice is issued by Engineering to Production Control with a copy of the newest revision so that Production Control can check the Work in Progress and replace the prints with the manufacturing lots in WIP. Unless... the change is significant, then the lots are swept and disposition made.

I am concerned with the fact that when I pick up a shop routing with a manufacturing lot, unless I physically check the drawer where the master print is kept, there is no way for me to know that the revision of the print in my hand is really the latest and greatest. Our shop routings only have customer part number drawing revisions (when applicable), but not internal part number print revisions. But, as Wes suggested, maybe I am stressing out over nothing and just need to relax and just make sure our current procedures are accurately documented. I am not worried about our auditor, he has already came to give us a readiness review and believes we are ready based on what he has read and seen. I am just getting ready by trying to look for things that don't seem to conform to the standard or may be questioned and am trying to sort them out.
Most if not all Engineering Change Request and/or Notices address effectivity of the change prior to issuing. What this means is that you should not have to worry about the latest greatest print revision because someone else already has and if they have not then you must go back and re-address your ecr/ecn procedure.
The ecr/ecn procedures I am familiar with ( i have work under several from aerospace to commercial) all address effectivity by either
a) serial number for change to take effect.
b) job number for change to take effect
c) use up existing stock before change takes effect
etc,etc. I am sure that you get the picture.
Please check your procedure for effectivity of change. I would be interested to hear if it is addressed in your system. Goodluck!
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
Let me address the term "effectivity" - as used by Boeing (my first brush with the term), it is an omnibus term which encompasses things like effective date or [especially at Boeing] the exact serial number of the aircraft the product is meant to go on. In general, Configuration Management (CM) seems to give more folks "wedgies" than anything else to do with document management.

In relatively complicated environments like aerospace manufacturing, my personal opinion is that CM needs to be overseen by someone who has a firm grasp of the big picture (overall operations) of the organization. Jim Howe has hinted that merely revising a document is only the beginning of a whole string of decisions ranging the gamut from
  • "this will take effect when and if we use up all the old stock"
to
  • "Stop everything! Recall all previous models, destroy all existing stock, institute an organization-wide purge of all obsolete versions of this document."
Often, the correct decisions are ingrained in the pertinent personnel to the extent they make them without further thought. Very infrequently, however, some manager will become penny-wise and pound foolish by hiring a low-wage clerk to do something he thinks of as a "filing function" (Configuration Management) when the true function requires managerial level decision making for the optimum decision to preserve corporate profitability and still assure meeting all customer requirements. It also requires thinking beyond the box in terms of knowing that a change as simple as one from straight slot screws to Phillips head may also entail changing production equipment and work instructions and repair instructions and repair kits, changing suppliers, finding a customer for obsolete stock, etc.
 
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