Control of Document and Form Master Lists

C

chascoffin

#1
Hello, putting a QMS together, ISO 9001 compliant, and have a question. I currently have a document master list and a records master list as part of the document control and record control procedures. As such, an addition to either list drives a revision change to the related procedure. Wondering if I can remove them from the procedures, document the templates as forms and control them. The procedures would then reference the lists, I would consider the lists to be documents of convenience controlled only by the date/title, no revision/change records. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Chas
 
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#2
Re: Control of Master Lists

chascoffin said:
Hello, putting a QMS system together, ISO 9001 compliant, and have a question. I currently have a document master list and a records master list as part of the document control and record control procedures. As such, an addition to either list drives a revision change to the related procedure. Wondering if I can remove them from the procedures, document the templates as forms and control them. The procedures would then reference the lists, I would consider the lists to be documents of convenience controlled only by the date/title, no revision/change records. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Chas
If they're stored electronically and have the revision as part of the filename, your electronic master folder containing these controlled documents would then be your "master list" of controlled docs. We do that here and it passed the ISO 9001 audit.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: Control of Master Lists

chascoffin said:
Hello, putting a QMS system together, ISO 9001 compliant, and have a question. I currently have a document master list and a records master list as part of the document control and record control procedures. As such, an addition to either list drives a revision change to the related procedure. Wondering if I can remove them from the procedures, document the templates as forms and control them. The procedures would then reference the lists, I would consider the lists to be documents of convenience controlled only by the date/title, no revision/change records. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Chas
I almost got lost in your post, but I think I made it out OK :D It looks like maybe your're overcomplicating things.

Why would you want to revise your procedure when the list is augmented? The procedure (the document) should tell what the list is, what in the quality manual it is related to, how the list is maintained, etc. It shouldn't need to be revised every time there's a new document.

Next, Why would you want a master list of records? All you need to do is describe how records are controlled (what a record should look like, where they're kept, when they're disposed of, etc.) You can control forms, or not, depending on whether or not the contents of the forms needs to be controlled.
 
#4
I like your idea chas , what i am thinking is that having master list of docs and records is just for tracking purpose in a sense that we shall know how many times that a doc. or record has been revised and to make sure that the latest revision is being used. and if you also keeping the DCR of all docs and records as we do, I think those records will serve the above purpose and you can forget about the masterlist. ???
 
F

fuzzy

#5
Yes and No...

chascoffin said:
Hello, putting a QMS system together, ISO 9001 compliant, and have a question. I currently have a document master list and a records master list as part of the document control and record control procedures. As such, an addition to either list drives a revision change to the related procedure. Wondering if I can remove them from the procedures, document the templates as forms and control them. The procedures would then reference the lists, I would consider the lists to be documents of convenience controlled only by the date/title, no revision/change records. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Chas
As pointed out by Jim, there should be no need to drive procedure revisions when reving a document unless you have made the mistake of referring to documents by their number and revision levels within your procedures. Do not make this your practice. I would disgree with Jim's comments on the master list of quality records as I utilize one now to cover all the tasks Jim mentions and more; the list allows users to know at a glance which documents are actually records, where they are stored, by whom, and the duration of retention before disposal. I think your idea to control each list by date is fine, although we do not date our master document list (electronically controlled).;)
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#6
Re: Yes and No...

fuzzy said:
I would disgree with Jim's comments on the master list of quality records as I utilize one now to cover all the tasks Jim mentions and more; the list allows users to know at a glance which documents are actually records, where they are stored, by whom, and the duration of retention before disposal. I think your idea to control each list by date is fine, although we do not date our master document list (electronically controlled).;)
I'm always in favor of anything that works as designed, and makes people happy:D
 
R

ralphsulser

#7
I established document control for the entire facility using an Excel file and filtered it to show departments and categories, revisions numbers and dates. Docs and forms are controlled by revision and all revisions are noted for reason. I am the only one in control of the master file. I don't need a master list because my masterfile is the actual list. Access is available for others on a shared file, but is restricted to view and print only.
This has worked well for us so far for the last 5 years. I started it with this method because it was being used for a few years by our Canadian operation.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#8
ralphsulser said:
I established document control for the entire facility using an Excel file and filtered it to show departments and categories, revisions numbers and dates. Docs and forms are controlled by revision and all revisions are noted for reason. I am the only one in control of the master file. I don't need a master list because my masterfile is the actual list. Access is available for others on a shared file, but is restricted to view and print only.
This has worked well for us so far for the last 5 years. I started it with this method because it was being used for a few years by our Canadian operation.
:applause: Congratulations. I agree in this day of computer use, master lists are an out dated method of control. They were useful back in the day of typewriters and carbon paper. The controls built into even just Microsft operating systems is much superior.

PS: Master lists are still acceptable, and serve a purpose, but it can be done more automatically than manual master lists.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#9
Re: Control of Master Lists

Lee said:
If they're stored electronically and have the revision as part of the filename, your electronic master folder containing these controlled documents would then be your "master list" of controlled docs. We do that here and it passed the ISO 9001 audit.

An excellent approach if you set it up right.:applause:
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#10
chascoffin said:
Hello, putting a QMS system together, ISO 9001 compliant, and have a question. I currently have a document master list and a records master list as part of the document control and record control procedures. As such, an addition to either list drives a revision change to the related procedure. Wondering if I can remove them from the procedures, document the templates as forms and control them. The procedures would then reference the lists, I would consider the lists to be documents of convenience controlled only by the date/title, no revision/change records. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Chas
The master list, if you want to use that method, should just be a simple index or list of documents and rev levels, and maybe a reference to their location. Better, would be to hyperlink them, so a click takes you there. Don't make it too complicated.
 
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