Control of Documents and (FORMS) on a Computer Network

[normzone]

" be subject to extreme elderly furry "

I think you mean "fury" with only one "r". If you google furries or furrys you'll see what I mean. Extreme elder furry could get really strange, really fast.

 

[Gman2]

We may be going to a two folder system.

#1 The company is not going to shell out $$ for any document control system, no way. If you think making a FEW people look in two places is bad, lets just have them all learn a brand new program

#2 I am not going to be in any "trouble" for pointing out how ridiculous a small percentage of peoples resistance to change is. You should have heard what the powers that be here said about their attitudes, trust me what I said was nice, but in their defense they have had to deal with it much longer than me.

#3 The only reason I asked about this in the first place was to try to find a system that will be as non disruptive as possible (obviously) showing that I do in fact have other peoples concerns in mind. I could have just said "you know what, this it how it is, DEAL WITH IT" 90% of everyone would have been fine with the new system anyway. But I didn't (even though that's what several managers suggested).

#4 If you can't handle a little and clowning, I don't know what to tell you.

#5 Sometimes stereotypes do fit. I am a genX, I feel entitled at times, I am hooked on electronics and mobile devices, fast food, crave instant gratification, I am in debt, living well above my means and you know what, nobody on this planet that would point that out would hurt one feeling in my entire body. Even random people on the internet that I didn't know (especially random people on the internet that I didn't know). I learned the sticks and stones rule very early, something my divorced, working, single parents instilled in me that actually stuck

NOWBACKTOWORK!

The only reason I am gravitating to the two folder system is so we don't have to purge that entire Master file right now, plus it is named something ridiculous on the network that really makes no sense, kind of a pet peeve thing but still, if I change the name of the folder all of the existing links are broken anyway so why not just rip the band aid off?
Also I don't really want to control fax cover sheets and vacation requests and 100+ other forms that were just whipped up and used once. This way if we need a flyer for a party or a one time use tag for something and people want to save it we can do that without worrying about putting a rev date on it. The only things in the ISO controlled folder would be forms that have been through the approval process.
Does anyone here REALLY think putting controlled QMS documents in with random forms, cover sheets and one time use items is a GOOD idea? Really? Let pretend for a second that I didn't make a joke about the age of the people resisting change here and lets ask ourselves that question again because I'm just not seeing it.

G

 

[Wes Bucey]

We may be going to a two folder system.

#1 The company is not going to shell out $$ for any document control system, no way. If you think making a FEW people look in two places is bad, lets just have them all learn a brand new program

<SNIP>
#5 Sometimes stereotypes do fit. I am a genX, I feel entitled at times, I am hooked on electronics and mobile devices, fast food, crave instant gratification, I am in debt, living well above my means and you know what, nobody on this planet that would point that out would hurt one feeling in my entire body. Even random people on the internet that I didn't know (especially random people on the internet that I didn't know). I learned the sticks and stones rule very early, something my divorced, working, single parents instilled in me that actually stuck

NOWBACKTOWORK!

The only reason I am gravitating to the two folder system is so we don't have to purge that entire Master file right now, plus it is named something ridiculous on the network that really makes no sense, kind of a pet peeve thing but still, if I change the name of the folder all of the existing links are broken anyway so why not just rip the band aid off?
Also I don't really want to control fax cover sheets and vacation requests and 100+ other forms that were just whipped up and used once. This way if we need a flyer for a party or a one time use tag for something and people want to save it we can do that without worrying about putting a rev date on it. The only things in the ISO controlled folder would be forms that have been through the approval process.
Does anyone here REALLY think putting controlled QMS documents in with random forms, cover sheets and one time use items is a GOOD idea? Really? Let pretend for a second that I didn't make a joke about the age of the people resisting change here and lets ask ourselves that question again because I'm just not seeing it.

G

Most consultants on business systems (including me!) make our bones by pointing out to management that money spent on a truly efficient and effective system is an investment that pays excellent returns.

When discussing an electronic document management system, there are multiple factors which determine how easy or difficult it is for folks to create and/or access documents they need to perform their job functions. In most cases, there are very few authors creating new documents. Mostly, folks are accessing documents to confirm they are performing a process according to the approved method. Other folks are merely pulling blank forms which they populate with data to become a record.

With the correct software, non-authors NEVER have access to create or change documents, merely having (at most) "read only" privileges; folks completing blank forms with data only have access to the forms pertinent to their job functions; everyone has access to a menu system that has a "google type" function allowing search for unfamiliar document by key words which may include departments, product names, customer names, authors, date ranges, etc.

In almost every case, consultants help all affected employees see and appreciate the effectiveness and efficiency of a new system versus the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of the legacy system. If the new system is NOT more efficient and effective, it is simply the wrong system. There is ALWAYS a solution or system which incorporates these three factors:

1. efficiency
2. effectiveness
3. cost effectiveness

A consultant who does NOT deliver those three factors doesn't stay a consultant for very long.



By the way, you wrote

Since I have been here I have created several new forms and am just now starting to modify some existing forms after reviewing them.
Here is the problem. Everyone here is used to going into the existing messy folder and grabbing their forms. All of the new stuff I have created I have place in a separate folder called "controlled forms". The other old directory is called something else. Problem now is when revising these old forms I have been moving them into the new controlled forms folder and some of the more...how to say....ELDER people are flipping their lids because now their form has moved and now they have to look in two places for forms.

I can almost guarantee I'm older than 99% of the employees at your organization and neither I nor any of my age contemporaries in my wide circle of acquaintances and colleagues get upset because of a change which makes life easier and more efficient. Change is the one constant we ELDER people learn to accept pretty early in our lives.

It just may be that YOU are not making changes which adhere to the qualifying factors:

1. efficiency
2. effectiveness
3. cost effectiveness

and, most likely, your social interaction skills with fellow employees and managers may need some fine tuning.

 

[pldey42]

But still, if looking in two places means the obsolete copy is in folder 1 and the current copy is in folder 2 you risk a nonconformity against ISO 9001 clause 4.2.3.g which requires the document control process to prevent unintended use of obsolete documents. If the problem is systemic you risk it being graded as a major NC and failing the initial certification audit.

If you mean that folder 1 will contain stuff you don't care about, and folder 2 will contain "ISO stuff" and docs will be in one or the other, not both, then there will be no NC in this regard.

Why do they have to go looking? Why not create an index? Why be hostile to colleagues when you could address their concerns and be helpful? Why not work with them? Will you have to bully them to do all the other things that ISO 9001 requires in addition to controlling documents?

 

[Gman2]

There would be no obsolete in folder one, it would only be non-essential stuff once everything has moved. If it were controlled it would only be in the new folder. It sounds simple to me. I would just create shortcuts on my desktop to all of the forms that I use daily, slap them all into a folder called "my forms" or whatever and just use the links which will always be the most updated version.
PROBLEM FREAKING SOLVED RIGHT?
If I can do this, and if the vast majority of people have no issues with this, I just don't get why it's the end of the world for some to do this. I know this system will work, its just getting EVERYONE on board.

And I don't mind being the keeper of the forms. I am one of the only ones who have the skillset to create fully functional/efficient/clean forms. I'm not saying that to brag its just the truth. Most of the stuff now they are printing, filling out and scanning back in because they cannot fill them out electronically. Everything I have created or updated allows for this now. And I have sat down with the departments and gathered their change requests for their forms and created new ones for them. After all is said and done I will have my hands in every form in the QMS. These things have not been updated in well over 5 years, some older than that. Do I have time for it? No? Will I get it done to help the system and to make peoples day to day easier? Yes. I know, I'm a monster.

 

[Wes Bucey]

There would be no obsolete in folder one, it would only be non-essential stuff once everything has moved. If it were controlled it would only be in the new folder. It sounds simple to me. I would just create shortcuts on my desktop to all of the forms that I use daily, slap them all into a folder called "my forms" or whatever and just use the links which will always be the most updated version.
PROBLEM FREAKING SOLVED RIGHT?
If I can do this, and if the vast majority of people have no issues with this, I just don't get why it's the end of the world for some to do this. I know this system will work, its just getting EVERYONE on board.

And I don't mind being the keeper of the forms. I am one of the only ones who have the skillset to create fully functional/efficient/clean forms. I'm not saying that to brag its just the truth. Most of the stuff now they are printing, filling out and scanning back in because they cannot fill them out electronically. Everything I have created or updated allows for this now. And I have sat down with the departments and gathered their change requests for their forms and created new ones for them. After all is said and done I will have my hands in every form in the QMS. These things have not been updated in well over 5 years, some older than that. Do I have time for it? No? Will I get it done to help the system and to make peoples day to day easier? Yes. I know, I'm a monster.

This may seem like a method to assure longevity in a job, but it also freezes you from promotion or transfer. From the organization's point of view, who will take over for you if one of those mean-spirited ELDERS runs you down in the parking lot?

 

[lk2012]

Heehee that just might happen getting run over

For that case, I'd suggest having a partner in crime who has the same access rights and can deputise / help out when needed. One-man Quality is a tough lone job (not mentioning a one-woman Quality)