Control of Forms - Do forms need to be controlled?

[kaanish]

Re: Do forms really need to be controlled?

hello this is but really a problem which many of us face.....

Do forms really need to be controlled?

The biggest problem is system/format dependancy. If a form is filled-in manually some times, typed other times, generated from a database at others, and sometimes emailed (as text, not an attachment)... well thats a big mess technically.

Furthermore, sometimes the format of a form is counter-intuitive, but nobody is willing to step up and request a document change. Partially this may be because the 'draft phase' of trying out a new format does not fit neatly into 'the system'.

So as a method of continuous improvement, and to accomodate a variety of computer system formats, I propose the following clause in my document/record control procedure:



Your thoughts?

In a small organization such as where I work (~60 people) the potential risk of disorder is low, and the freedom and potential gains are substantial.

 

[kaanish]

Re: Do forms really need to be controlled?

Hello,

I feel that it is important control your formats in a proper way. As u say that controlled forms are provided and ensured that relevant information is captured. It can create a big mess !! if not controlled properly. There are few options, have a specimen copy of every form in your procedure manual which contains the relevant coulmns/information with appropriate identification number( this is important) , mark a stamp/sign and issue it in bulk by photocopying if needed and maintain a issue register. If there is any revision u can as well as retrieve it from the departments.

in another case where the forms can be directly printed from the system , see that it is PDF file or some other options where it can not be changed , here also there can be id number as well as revision number. and only prints can be taken .

As for the problem to undergo a change first u can modify your documnet control procedure which is user friendly as the standard does not impose any rules on it.

And for the other forms ( computerised) you can ensure it by having person 'check it' for correctness,compliance and completeness. Hope I have made a good try!!!!

 

[venkatesan]

Re: Control of Forms - Do forms really need to be controlled?

Yes defenetly we have to maintaine and control because if only can identify and can do something.

 

[bobdoering]

Re: Control of Forms - Do forms really need to be controlled?

I find the handiest way to control a form is a unique number (need not be a "smart" number) and a revision - either date or letter. Stick it in the footer and be done. If the electronic and paper form are identical, control it as one form. If they are different, then it is best to capture that by controlling them as separate forms - but note in you control system that they are related, so that if one is changed there is a breadcrumb to lead you to the other to verify the change on it.

I have utilized the idea of a master form book by the copier to help encourage people NOT to make 100 copies and stuff them in their desk, ensuring obsolete forms live on forever. It keeps people from rooting all over the world for a blank form - there is one stop shopping. Also, it helps answer the question: "How do you know you are using the most recent form?" "Easy, got it from the controlled form book." Done.

 

[Gumaer]

Re: Control of Forms - Do forms really need to be controlled?

Many forms are RECORDS offered as PROOF that a particular function was completed as required. These records would be subject to regulatory agency review and they would be expecting to find a controlled document.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: Control of Forms - Do forms really need to be controlled?

I find the handiest way to control a form is a unique number (need not be a "smart" number) and a revision - either date or letter. Stick it in the footer and be done. If the electronic and paper form are identical, control it as one form. If they are different, then it is best to capture that by controlling them as separate forms - but note in you control system that they are related, so that if one is changed there is a breadcrumb to lead you to the other to verify the change on it.

I have utilized the idea of a master form book by the copier to help encourage people NOT to make 100 copies and stuff them in their desk, ensuring obsolete forms live on forever. It keeps people from rooting all over the world for a blank form - there is one stop shopping. Also, it helps answer the question: "How do you know you are using the most recent form?" "Easy, got it from the controlled form book." Done.

Good advice. I would take the Forms Notebook one step further. Put them all in a controlled folder on the computer server, and print them as you need them. Easy to get to them, and easy to print. But, write protected so they can't be changed.

 

[QA gremlin]

Re: Do forms really need to be controlled?

From my experience I want forms controlled as part of QMS document control. I believe forms can be seen as work instructions as they direct the user as to what infomration is required which becomes a quality record too. I think a proliferation of forms is a source of waste and errors in an organization. I prefer online databases to forms if possible - then the information can be interrogated, mined, backed-up etc. Controlling forms contribute to a sense of dicipline and control in an organization which I think is desireable for the QMS to be effective. I think people also forget a key benefit of documenting your QMS - which is to establish a standard basis of process performance which can be improved upon by applying scientific method to improvement as the documented and audited system should show the system is stable & predictable with minimal variation and variables. "If there is no standard, there can be no improvement" If the system is not effective then you can "ACT" by changing it and doing a valid experiment and "measure" the effect. I have found when you control forms you eliminate redundant & obsolete forms and creators are less reluctant to publish new ones. I think if the organization is involved in a regulated or risky industry like medical, nuclear, codes, automotive, consumer products, it would be prudent to control forms as once complete they provide critical records to show compliance or defense in a lawsuit.

 

[Raffy]

In our end, we have a dedicated folder for all the forms. We have it controlled however, there are still some undesirable personnel did save this forms in their own folders or PC that's why we cannot 100% control the said forms. i agree with QA Gremlin that "Controlling forms contribute to a sense of dicipline and control in an organization which I think is desireable for the QMS to be effective." there should be a sense of discipline on part of the user.
raffy

 

[Helmut Jilling]

In our end, we have a dedicated folder for all the forms. We have it controlled however, there are still some undesirable personnel did save this forms in their own folders or PC that's why we cannot 100% control the said forms. i agree with QA Gremlin that "Controlling forms contribute to a sense of dicipline and control in an organization which I think is desireable for the QMS to be effective." there should be a sense of discipline on part of the user.
raffy

If you put an automatic code for the file path in the footer of each document, it will tell you where it was printed from. If soemone copies it to a different folder, the filepath name will show you who the culprit is, and where he has it stored. It will tell who is cheating.

But, also keep in mind, there is a reason (root cause) why they are cheating. Figure out why they are doing it. Maybe the access is too difficult for some reason.

 

[Raffy]

If you put an automatic code for the file path in the footer of each document, it will tell you where it was printed from. If soemone copies it to a different folder, the filepath name will show you who the culprit is, and where he has it stored. It will tell who is cheating.

But, also keep in mind, there is a reason (root cause) why they are cheating. Figure out why they are doing it. Maybe the access is too difficult for some reason.

Hi,
My current control right now, is to issue a Corrective Action Report for incorrect form used.
Does it make sense? Or it is an overkill among ourselves.
raffy