Control Plan - Automotive - What To Put Where

#11
TD,

1- True,
2- Each step in the process effects the outcome of the product. So I would say YES there is a product characteristic at each step.
3- Not clear what you mean. Could you provide an example?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#12
Some Basics

Response to post by TownDawg

> In fact, some of our customers are very vocal about WHAT
> information goes WHERE.

We are talking about the Characteristics column which has 3 sub-columns - No., Product and Process. Right?

> You bring up many good points, Jim. Regarding visual
> inspection, how does one measure and verify?.. My take is
> that we use boundary samples and other product-related
> knowledge to determine whether the process is
> accomplishing it's intended result.

Sounds like a weiner to me!

> Without writing an epistle here, let me focus back on the
> original concept that us here are trying to reconcile.
> First: For each process step, as listed on the control
> plan, I stand by my original argument that a process
> characteristic always exists

Yup - if it's on the control plan it's a characteristic which must be controlled. But product characteristic(s) may also be related to the process - hence the Product sub-column.

There are also process characteristics which are not criitical/special/whatever may exist which are not on the control plan (just a thought to screw up the works here...).

> but what about a product
> characteristic? I am of the opinion that there are no
> product characteristics for placing FIP headrest in a
> mold; only those related to the process - in that we have
> certain visual cues that tell the operator that the OIS
> (operator instruction sheet) is being carried out in a
> repeatable fashion.

As long as placement is not an issue, then it's not an issue. How can you tell? It sounds to me like you're putting something in a mold and that there is something in the mold which 'fixtures' it. I don't know what an FIP headrest is - is it a metal frame or something?

Did this come from the Design FMEA or the Process FMEA? Design FMEA characteristics are Product (Characterisics sub-column) characteristics. Process FMEA characteristics are Process (Characterisics sub-column) characteristics.

> I have seen control plans where the product characteristic
> is depicted as the 'sub-component name'; i.e., headrest
> assembly. I struggle with this view of WHAT information
> goes WHERE. On the same control chart, the process
> characteristic is listed as 'preparation'. Similar process
> steps (that follow this line of reasoning) would be listed
> as 'clean' or 'demold'.

Preparation listed as a characteristic? I would think there would be preparation characteristic(s), if anything, but not preparation as a characteristic as a lone item. I'd have to see a copy of the control plan and FMEAs to see what's going on.

I would consider 'clean' or 'demold' or 'trim flash' as process characteristics - not product characteristics, but I guess you could go either way. Again, where did they come from? The Design or the Process FMEA?

> Al/Marc: If the FMEA is prepared in the Quality 101 order,
> then we know what those product/process characteristics
> are, because we have identified them during our
> investigation process. Since our goal is to ensure that
> those characteristics are being met, that information is
> transferred to the control plan. Further explanation of
> the how/when/where is described on the OIS.

What is OIS?

Or am I confusing the whole issue here? :thedeal:
 
Q

qsmso

#13
I also have question

Hello all,

I joined the meeting in my company how to make Process Control Plan being used effectively. We came up with many ideas. However, one idea is to rearrange format of control plan such as input column of RPN number in order to make staffs aware of high RPN number. Also, adding sub column to input gage code (serial number).

My questions are:

1. Can we modify Control Plan format based on APAP manual? I am on the middle of looking in the manual, but not finish yet.

2. If we modify, customer will accept these control plan or not such as PPAP package? Or we are able to use internally only?

3. If we can modify control plan format, could anyone suggest what item should be placed in control plan, so more informations can help process control easier than now?

Thank you

QSMSO
 
D

D.Scott

#14
Change of format

Most of our customers would not accept a reformatted CP. I think there is a requirement to use the layout in the manual but I could be mistaken. We have never considered changing format so I guess it never came up. The entire FMEA book changed recently with one of the major changes being a change in the layout of the form.

Let me know if you find changes are allowable accross the board.

Dave
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#15
The format can be an issue with a customer, but in past QS-9000 registrations I have been involved with a number of companies which did not follow the AIAG control plan format in one way or the other. What it came down to is if you have the information in the AIAG form as a minimum there was no issue - several ex-clients used a combined process flow diagram-control plan, for example.

This said, whatever your specific customer wants over rides QS-9000 so if they say they wouldn't allow you to do something like the 'combination process flow diagram-control plan' then - well, you're sunk I guess. To me that would be stupid nit picking of (yes, folks) form over function... :thedeal:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
B Need a Process Flow Diagram, Control Plan and PFMEA for Automotive Wiring Harness FMEA and Control Plans 10
E Control Plan and FMEA (non automotive) FMEA and Control Plans 9
D Automotive Core Tools - Developing PPAP, PFMEA and Control Plan Work Instructions APQP and PPAP 3
F Control Plan for non automotive customer FMEA and Control Plans 9
D Significant & Critical Characteristics Control Plan - Automotive Metal Stampings FMEA and Control Plans 5
Manix Automotive Sampling Plans. HELP! Working on an Automotive process control plan Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
A Prototype control plan FMEA and Control Plans 2
S Which department should prepare the control plan? could you show me a standard regarding to this matter. FMEA and Control Plans 17
G Control Plan & PFMEA Review Procedure? FMEA and Control Plans 1
P IATF 16949 requirement - error-proofing in control plan IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
earl62 What is the best way to control special characteristics in Control plan? Is it Mandatory to have SPC for IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 12
I Control Plan (Product/Process specification/ Tolerance) acceptance FMEA and Control Plans 27
J Control Plan use on the manufacturing floor FMEA and Control Plans 4
E Change in control plan - Do I have to do sampling? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
D All Dimensions listed on control plan FMEA and Control Plans 10
DuncanGibbons Manufacturing Plan vs Material Specification vs Control Plan Manufacturing and Related Processes 5
S Should safety checks be included in the Control Plan? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D Supplied Product on Control Plan - Lot ranging in 40,000 pcs per product FMEA and Control Plans 3
M Is there any pre-defined Control plan format/template acc. VDA? VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 0
G Control Plan - Include the processes for each sub component? APQP and PPAP 2
A Redesigning our process flow chart, PFMEA and Control Plan Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 4
D Link between FMEA, flow chart and control plan FMEA and Control Plans 10
M Dynamic Control Plan Draft - need review FMEA and Control Plans 2
Ashland78 IATF 16949 Control Plan Authorizations IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
N Control plan evaluation methods - Which methods should be carried over from the PFMEA? FMEA and Control Plans 3
Rameshwar25 What is a Control Plan at "Material Level"? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
L Control Plan - Multiple Process Steps FMEA and Control Plans 8
O Difference Between PFMEA & Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 3
W Purchased Part Control Plan (IATF 16949) FMEA and Control Plans 7
J VDA audit, control plan - My hair is almost gone now VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 5
Howard Atkins MSAs are now required on every feature of the control plan - IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
Jeff Putman EQI Prelaunch Control Plan - Definition Customer and Company Specific Requirements 0
V How to Add Annual Revalidation requirements to Control Plan? FMEA and Control Plans 5
N Control plan references FMEA and Control Plans 6
L Simple Example for PFMEA / Control Plan Training Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
J Functional group / area responsible on a Control Plan IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
T Should Testing be a separate operation in the Control Plan? FMEA and Control Plans 5
M Annual Layout requirements for PPAP/Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 6
T IATF 16949 Control Plan and Process Monitoring Requirement(s) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
J Why Control Plan Review needs to be Approved by the Customer IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
B PFMEA and Control Plan Links APQP and PPAP 2
A Corrective Action Column in Control Plan and aligning PFD, PFMEA and Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 6
M Control Plan MSA's - Pressure Gages IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
S Family / Generic type of FMEA & Control Plan and Symbols FMEA and Control Plans 3
V Do I need to add everything on print to control plan? FMEA and Control Plans 1
H Control plan example format for CNC machining activities FMEA and Control Plans 3
M Mention "according to Work Instruction" in Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 3
W Does TS16949 require MSA on all measurement systems in the Control Plan? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
T Software for linking Process Flow Diagram, Process FMEA and Control Plan APQP and PPAP 9
S Attribute G&R for all Visual Controls in Control Plan Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1

Similar threads

Top Bottom