Control Plan - Links to Customer Documents (e.g. Print) or the Actual Specifications?

C

CliffK

#11
Re: Control Plan - Links to Customer Documents (e.g. Print) or the Actual Specificati

If your Operators are gaging/measuring the part by their Machine then yes the Tolerance +/- should be in the Shop order, but if this is not the case and you have a first piece station which is measuring the part , then I would just include in the Control plan " Check to approved First piece" . Hope this helps :)
I don't think this gets you out of the need to specify a tolerance, unless the variation in your parts is below the resolution of your instrumentation so that all parts look identical.

Or maybe you have zero variation?;)
 
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try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#12
Re: Control Plan - Links to Customer Documents (e.g. Print) or the Actual Specificati

I don't think this gets you out of the need to specify a tolerance, unless the variation in your parts is below the resolution of your instrumentation so that all parts look identical.

Or maybe you have zero variation?;)
The tolerances are specified in the First piece Inspection sheet and Prints for each part we produce. Once the part has been approved by First piece it is recorded in the Data sheet, the part is tagged and returned to the Operator so they can do their frequency check per the Control plan. The operator matches in-production parts to the first piece, and looks for blown Cavities i.e holes, abnormal cut etc. If anything like the before mentioned occurs, when you match it up to the first piece it is very easily identifiable. Now if there is anything that the Operator has to watch out for during the Production run that might jeopardize the form or fit of the part it is stated clearly under his operation and if you are a good Quality person have it recorded in your Control plan and PFEMA :yes:
The only time ever the Operator has to measure a Tolerance is if the Customer requests a X & R for each Production run and most of our Customers have gotten away from that. The last time we had a major Customer wanting us to do that was in 2003. Now it is only done during the initital PPAP Process. Does this clarify it a bit better? I think sometimes I don't write it correctly ( being German and all):notme: and then people get confused :confused:
 
Q

Quality101

#13
Re: Control Plan - Links to Customer Documents (e.g. Print) or the Actual Specificati

I also reference other documents in my control plan and pass audits.

On the other hand Ford wants everything in the contol plan, so I only do it for ford.:mad:
 
C

CliffK

#14
Re: Control Plan - Links to Customer Documents (e.g. Print) or the Actual Specificati

The tolerances are specified in the First piece Inspection sheet and Prints for each part we produce. Once the part has been approved by First piece it is recorded in the Data sheet, the part is tagged and returned to the Operator so they can do their frequency check per the Control plan. The operator matches in-production parts to the first piece, and looks for blown Cavities i.e holes, abnormal cut etc. If anything like the before mentioned occurs, when you match it up to the first piece it is very easily identifiable. Now if there is anything that the Operator has to watch out for during the Production run that might jeopardize the form or fit of the part it is stated clearly under his operation and if you are a good Quality person have it recorded in your Control plan and PFEMA :yes:
The only time ever the Operator has to measure a Tolerance is if the Customer requests a X & R for each Production run and most of our Customers have gotten away from that. The last time we had a major Customer wanting us to do that was in 2003. Now it is only done during the initital PPAP Process. Does this clarify it a bit better? I think sometimes I don't write it correctly ( being German and all):notme: and then people get confused :confused:
Are you doing dimension checks?

I'm not criticizing, I'm just trying to understand.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#15
Re: Control Plan - Links to Customer Documents (e.g. Print) or the Actual Specificati

As an auditor I take the control plan and when I get to a station that refers to Form ZYX or Spec 123 or calls out drawing DDD, I have no problem with that as long as the relevant document is at the position and the operator can produce it for me.
I then check that he is working according to these documents.

The control plan should be for you to overlook the process and not become a burden.
If we look at Annex A it says
Each part shall have a control plan but, in many cases, family control plans may cover a number of similar parts produced using a common process. Control plans are an output of the quality plan.
IMO then the must be the possibility to refer to dimensions, tolerances etc in other documents as if the "family" had the same characteristics it would the same part and not a family.
 

try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#16
Re: Control Plan - Links to Customer Documents (e.g. Print) or the Actual Specificati

Are you doing dimension checks?

I'm not criticizing, I'm just trying to understand.
I know. Yes we do at First Piece and then the operator does his in production checks to the approved first piece. The most common checks for the majority of our Parts produced are length, width and if there is a hole present the diameter of the hole. If the part is round, then the Diameter of the part. If anything should happen during the production run that compromises any of these diamensions, you can clearly see it when you do your Frequency check. Let's say the hole is not round anymore, well clearly right there you can see that you are not making parts anymore that are within the tolerances given by the Customer. The Part is oversudden longer or wider then your approved first piece you are out of spec.
Our parts that we make are not that complicated they are pretty straight forward, unlike some of you who work for Companies that produce parts that are very complex. :)
 

try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#17
Re: Control Plan - Links to Customer Documents (e.g. Print) or the Actual Specificati

As an auditor I take the control plan and when I get to a station that refers to Form ZYX or Spec 123 or calls out drawing DDD, I have no problem with that as long as the relevant document is at the position and the operator can produce it for me.
I then check that he is working according to these documents.

The control plan should be for you to overlook the process and not become a burden.
If we look at Annex A it says


IMO then the must be the possibility to refer to dimensions, tolerances etc in other documents as if the "family" had the same characteristics it would the same part and not a family.
Thank you Howard. That is what our CB Auditors do. They get the Control plan for that part that they are getting ready to audit.
Example: Setup for Part # ABC , Correct Tool --> Shop order packet. Now you look at the Shop order and there you will see the Tool number 123, so the Tool in your Press better has the numbers 123 on it. Correct Material ---> Shop order Packet and Material Identification tag. Auditor should be able to take the Shop order look at the Material requirements and match them to the Material Identification tag.
Each process that the part has to go thru is in the Control plan and a reference is made to where you find the Information.
 
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