Control Plan or FMEA - Which comes first?

L

louie

#1
The company I'm currently with begins their Control Plan prior to beginning their FMEA. After they identify critical characteristics on the CP, they do FMEAs on the critical characteristics. We have a new person at our company that says we CAN NOT start our Control Plans until our FMEAs are complete.

Why Not? Am I missing something?

Appreciate your comments.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
S

Spaceman Spiff

#2
The sequence of events is: Design FMEA, Process FMEA, and then Control Plan. FMEAs determine what characteristics need to be controlled and the Control Plan describes how to control it. Ford's Dynamic Control Plan actually combines the PFMEA and the Control Plan.
 
S

Sarang

#3
I agree with Spaceman. I was really shocked when I first read the starter. I have been doing my FMEAs for the last couple of months and was listing down the critical characteristics so as to be included in the control plan and what I read was exactly the opposite of what I was doing.. I am not still sure about whether the sequence specified by Spaceman "DFMEA, PFMEA and control plan" is the right one, but as far as my knowledge goes, its FMEAs first and then the control plan. As described, come out with your process flow chart and diagrams, do FMEAs for all your processes and also your designs, identify the critical processes and then include these critical processes in your Control Plan to control them. Thats what the name suggests.
Any comments about this SENIORS???
 
S

Sarang

#5
How do you identify the critical characteristics Marc? I already told the way I have planned to do it and have been doing it for the last two months. Am I going wrong? Is this not the best approach? Do you suggest me to change my approach and catch another path?
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#6
Your control plan evolves. As I said, I start a control plan first and put customer defined critical characteristics on it. To get your critical characteristics you look at everything from industry standards on. Y9ou might machine a part and for that part to go in an assembly it may require a hole be placed within a certain area. It may be that area is critical, or it may not. You simply have to use your judgement and experience. There is no list you can go to.

I don't think the path is that critical. There is almost always overlap - as the DFMEA is being done quite often a PFMEA team (or person {reality, folks} is doing the Process FMEA. You have to understand the process, however. Sometimes there are DFMEA entries that are carried over to the PFMEA (not often, but it does happen from time to time).

I prefer to have a projected process flow diagram before starting the PFMEA as I believe you have a better idea of what to look at.

I wouldn't let the sequence bog you down. If you do the PFMEA before the DFMEA (which is very, very common - but I would say it is not the 'smartest way' to do it), it's a matter of reviewing the two together and checking to see if anything from the DFMEA should be added to the PFMEA.

If you review the APQP document I linked above and still have questions, come on back and ask more questions.

Gotta run. I'm leaving for Tampa in a couple of hours.
 
L

Laura M

#7
We always did PFD, PFMEA, then PCP. DFMEA was provided by design as the first document. In reality the PFMEA requires you identify "current process controls" so it was in all practicality a simultaneous activity. Alot depends on whether you are looking at an existing process or developing a new one.
 
S

Spaceman Spiff

#8
Marc, it's not often I disagree with you... the customer's critical characteristics should be the "Input" in Phase 1 of APQP. Those characteristics are part of the design consideration, thus included in the Design FMEA.
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#10
My 2 cents:

While performing an FMEA, you need to have some idea of how a failure mode is controlled, even if the FMEA comes first in your sequence of events. Additionally, is a low RPN value as a result of the preliminary (?) control plan activity?

Regards,

Kevin
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
D Link between FMEA, flow chart and control plan FMEA and Control Plans 10
S Family / Generic type of FMEA & Control Plan and Symbols FMEA and Control Plans 3
T Software for linking Process Flow Diagram, Process FMEA and Control Plan APQP and PPAP 9
C List Error Proofing in the Process FMEA or the Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 2
K FMEA and Control Plan Header Content FMEA and Control Plans 6
Q Chrysler required FMEA and Control Plan Document Audit Forms and Process Audit Check FMEA and Control Plans 7
S FMEA and Control Plan in a Cord Blood Bank FMEA and Control Plans 2
R FMEA and Control Plan Linkage FMEA and Control Plans 3
Z Control Plan & FMEA Specifications - Level of Details FMEA and Control Plans 4
R Which parameters to be addressed in Control Plan from FMEA? FMEA and Control Plans 2
K FMEA and Control Plan In-House or send to Customer? APQP and PPAP 9
R Criteria for defining FMEA & Control Plan Critical and Significant Characteristics FMEA and Control Plans 10
D Control Plan & FMEA for Supplier Assembled Parts FMEA and Control Plans 3
P Robots in a Production Line - Control Plan and Process FMEA Manufacturing and Related Processes 9
T Current Process Controls Prevention - Process FMEA before Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 5
D Process Diagram - FMEA - Control Plan Software APQP and PPAP 5
T Our products are Security Cabinets - FMEA & Control Plan Quality Planning help FMEA and Control Plans 1
D How does "outsourcing" get included in the FMEA and Control Plan? FMEA and Control Plans 4
Q Does every Process Control listed in FMEA have to be listed in the Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 4
P FMEA & Control Plan for painting of plastic parts - Example wanted FMEA and Control Plans 3
ScottK Retroactive FMEA and Control plan - is this a common thing? FMEA and Control Plans 12
P FMEA and Control Plan for Plastic Injection Moulding/Painting Process FMEA and Control Plans 13
L Is FMEA revision the only input for Control Plan revision? FMEA and Control Plans 15
D The relationship between the FMEA and Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 4
M Flow chart, FMEA, Control Plan for cable assembly for Automative industry IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
E Control Plan and FMEA (non automotive) FMEA and Control Plans 9
Q FMEA (Failure Modes and Effects Analysis) and Control Plan Process Diagrams FMEA and Control Plans 3
Kales Veggie Informational How to develop a Control Plan from a PFMEA (Process FMEA) FMEA and Control Plans 56
J The real Link between a PFMEA (Process FMEA) and the Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 19
M Connections between PFMEA (Process FMEA) and the Control Plan. FMEA and Control Plans 20
T ISO9001 or TS16949 FMEA and CONTROL PLAN For Tannery / Leather Industry FMEA and Control Plans 1
J How to connect FMEA, Control Plan, G8d, 5Whys and Draw the pareto Nonconformance and Corrective Action 0
D FMEA and Control Plan Characteristics Column - Product / Process Information FMEA and Control Plans 2
M Software to Handle All "Quality" Processes? APQP, Control Plan, FMEA, MSA, PPAP, etc. Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 1
C Process Flow Diagram, FMEA and Control Plan Attached - Please Review FMEA and Control Plans 6
B Links between Process Flow, Process FMEA and Control Plan IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 22
R Layered Audits - Where to tie the layered audit process back to FMEA & Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 10
R Dock audits on Process FMEA, Control Plan and Process Flow Diagram FMEA and Control Plans 5
J Software which links Process FMEA (PFMEA), Control Plan and Flow Chart Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 9
A How to establish linkage between specs/control plan/FMEA/process flow? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 10
R ISO 9001 Vs. QS-9000 - Does ISO 9000 not require a Control Plan, FMEA, etc.? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
apestate Short FMEA and Control Plan - What am I doing wrong? FMEA and Control Plans 5
apestate Multiple Attachments: FMEA and Control Plan Forms Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 14
S Control Plan and Design FMEA (DFMEA) Links FMEA and Control Plans 4
A Microsoft Access APQP type database for Process Flow, FMEA, Control Plan, etc. Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 44
M FMEA and Control Plan Software - Seeking advice Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 12
P IATF 16949 requirement - error-proofing in control plan IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
earl62 What is the best way to control special characteristics in Control plan? Is it Mandatory to have SPC for IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
I Control Plan (Product/Process specification/ Tolerance) acceptance FMEA and Control Plans 27
J Control Plan use on the manufacturing floor FMEA and Control Plans 4

Similar threads

Top Bottom