Control Plan or FMEA - Which comes first?

E

Eric Sleeckx

#11
(May be I don't understand the discussion quite well.) I think an efficient control plan should focus in the first place on "critical" issues. These critical issues can be identified by an FMEA. The most logical order would then be FMEA, next control plan. Bye the way by nature of an FMEA it results in an action list, what could well be a control plan. Without a critical analysis your control plan hangs in the air, I'm afraid...
 
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S

Spaceman Spiff

#12
Kevin, RPN reduction is normally through design and/or process improvement at the pre-production phase. However, since FMEA is a living document, you are absolutely right in saying FMEA RPN reduction is result of control plan.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
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#14
Originally posted by Dawn:
Flowcharts come first;
Sometimes at the Design FMEA stage the process flow is not known or defined. As Laura said: "...it was in all practicality a simultaneous activity..."

The chicken came first...
 

Marc

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#15
Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff:
Marc, it's not often I disagree with you... the customer's critical characteristics should be the "Input" in Phase 1 of APQP. Those characteristics are part of the design consideration, thus included in the Design FMEA.
I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. Before you do anything you have to get your customer requirements - which is why a control plan (sequentially) is an early (sometimes the first) document. And remember, the control plan, like the other documents, 'evolve'. In QS there is a requirement for 3 'levels' of the control plan (sometimes all three ar the same but that's another topic...). Whether or not you start the control plan right away, or after you do the design FEMA, you need to know the customer requirements including critical characteristics. You can't (in my opinion) do a design FMEA unless you have the customer requirements including critical (and safety, etc.) characteristics.
 
B

Brian Dowsett

#16
Folks,
I'd say find out customer requirements, use a QFD or cause and effect matrix to decide what process or design inputs have most effect on these requirements, then do your fmea(s) to get to potential failures.
After all this good stuff you'll know what to include on your control plan.
Where the confusion sets in is that the control plan will quite often include some product based controls that were specified by the customer right from the start.
If you want to pencil these in on a control plan form, right from day one -what the heck!
Who cares as long as you end up with control of the product characteristics that the customer specified, plus all the process based inputs that will have an effect.

Cheers

Brian
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
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#17
Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff:
Marc, it's not often I disagree with you... the customer's critical characteristics should be the "Input" in Phase 1 of APQP. Those characteristics are part of the design consideration, thus included in the Design FMEA.
Agreed.
 
D

denadales

#18
Re: What comes first? Control Plan or FMEA?

Folks,

All books and literatures about Control plans would tell you that it is generated after your FMEA. Your FMEA should drive your control plan since your critical and significant characteristics shall be defined during FMEA brainstorming. The best way is to make a SIPOC , then FMEA , then the control plan, then do a proactive review of your leading indicators, then review and update the FMEA again and again..
 
A

Ashwani

#19
Re: What comes first? Control Plan or FMEA?

How do you identify the critical characteristics Marc? I already told the way I have planned to do it and have been doing it for the last two months. Am I going wrong? Is this not the best approach? Do you suggest me to change my approach and catch another path?
u man u want to become defective when u r already right.DFMEA covers design risks that were earlier covered by design review only.

1. very 1st step is identify process- Process flow
2. then evaluate the process for failure moded - PFMEA
3. generate Critical / special characteristics
4. Identify controls for failure modes & special for special characteristics
5. Prepare quality check points

now change the flow & tell me what you will get if u by-pass anyone
 
D

David DeLong

#20
I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. Before you do anything you have to get your customer requirements - which is why a control plan (sequentially) is an early (sometimes the first) document. And remember, the control plan, like the other documents, 'evolve'. In QS there is a requirement for 3 'levels' of the control plan (sometimes all three ar the same but that's another topic...). Whether or not you start the control plan right away, or after you do the design FEMA, you need to know the customer requirements including critical characteristics. You can't (in my opinion) do a design FMEA unless you have the customer requirements including critical (and safety, etc.) characteristics.
Marc:

I agree with you completely on this one. Control Plans under TS still have the three (3) levels.

I could never figure out how anyone could go into a Process FMEA (real one and not the fakes 1 day be sample submission) without having a draft Control Plan. I agree that the final Control Plan will be the outcome of the Process FMEA but not having anything on paper going into a meeting just doesn't make sense to me.
 
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