Control Plan (Product/Process specification/ Tolerance) acceptance

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#21
Jim: A specific example (from my personal experience) would be a tempering process (time/temperature dependent) for strip steel which needs to meet specific physical parameters (yield strength and % elongation). When I was involved in the project, we were able to find only one manufacturer who could meet our requirements, and they spent quite a bit of time (and money) in developing their process.
Good day @Jim Wynne ;
@Ron Rompen gave a good example. My personal experiences are similar, with thermal processing (austenitizing time/temp, etc...) And many of the organizations I have worked with (aluminum casting, "BOP shop chemistry" [steel mills], , etc...)
Again, I see no reason why the specifications, tolerances and measurement methods can't be shown on the control plan.
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#22
Jim,

Are you referring to process or product specifications, tolerances, etc.?
I thought the context made clear I was referring to process specs and tolerances. I don't see the OP as clearly limiting the question to one or the other.
The thread title:
Control Plan (Product/Process specification/ Tolerance) acceptance
In his initial post, the OP said that his question is "... related to what to accept under the specific column (Product/ Process Specification/ Tolerances)." (My emphasis) I don't know how much more specific it can be.
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#23
Jim: As the Process Flow, PFMEA and Control Plan are all required to be submitted as a part of the PPAP, having the process specifications on the CP would mean that the proprietary information developed by the company was now no longer under their own control. I will concede that it is unlikely that this information would then be shared with a competitor, things like this have been known to happen.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#24
Jim: As the Process Flow, PFMEA and Control Plan are all required to be submitted as a part of the PPAP, having the process specifications on the CP would mean that the proprietary information developed by the company was now no longer under their own control. I will concede that it is unlikely that this information would then be shared with a competitor, things like this have been known to happen.
How can specifications be proprietary? Specifications may be divulged without saying a single word about the process that produces them.
 

outdoorsNW

Involved In Discussions
#25
The heading is "Product/ Process Specification/ Tolerances" [emphasis added] and the OP did not specify if the concern was product, process, or both. A process specification can be proprietary as outlined by several posts in this thread.

I have seen plenty of process specs such as pH 3.5 +/- .2 or 135 deg F +10,-5 deg F
 

TWA - not the airline

Trusted Information Resource
#26
The heading is "Product/ Process Specification/ Tolerances" [emphasis added] and the OP did not specify if the concern was product, process, or both. A process specification can be proprietary as outlined by several posts in this thread.
As I see it a control plan is about control (obviously :)). So for agiven process step I can either control the process via monitoring critical parameters (which may indeed be proprietary) or by controling the result by inspecting/testing the product against its specification. As long as the column is either/or there is no issue...
 

Sebastian

Trusted Information Resource
#27
Words "proprietary" and "know how" are simply abusive.
Usually, there are no patents, there is no specific knowledge giving market advantage, justifying using it, but company still use them.
Because 2nd and 3rd party auditors tolerate it.

Annex A of IATF 16949 was modified comparing to ISO/TS 16949:2009.
Process control section
- process parameters - ISO/TS 16949
- process parameters (including process settings and tolerances) - IATF 16949
It is reaction for observations related to how suppliers addressed this requirement.

We say, supplier, protect supplier, but control plan, first of all is a method to protect customer.
These specifications are there, to check them during audits some time later after SOP.
Suppliers are not respecting process change procedures and change initial specification without notification to customer.
How to detect it, when initial control plan, part of PPAP package does not list process parameters?

Control plan can consist of more than one document, when it is feasible, e.g. in case of family control plan, but all documents buidling control plan, have to be submitted during PPAP submission.

IATF was not consequent and in IATF 16949 section 8.5.1.2 removed one sentence present in ISO/TS 16949 7.5.1.2 "... instructions shall be derived from sources as ... control plan...", so then work instruction could not be part of control plan, now it may be.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#28
The heading is "Product/ Process Specification/ Tolerances" [emphasis added] and the OP did not specify if the concern was product, process, or both. A process specification can be proprietary as outlined by several posts in this thread.

I have seen plenty of process specs such as pH 3.5 +/- .2 or 135 deg F +10,-5 deg F
I've yet to see an example of a proprietary specification/tolerance. Simply stating a spec and tolerance doesn't tell us why it should be considered proprietary.
 
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