Control Plan = Work Instructions?

CarolX

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#11
Carol.... I have a Master flow chart which lists all the Procedure and WI documents relevant to each step in each step. Could this possibly qualify as our CP?
Sorry, I really can't say - I am far from an expert on CPs (I know just enough to be dangerous - LOL).

prototyper has some great suggestions and ideas.
 
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smryan

Perspective.
#13
A control plan should detail key characteristics and specifications, the control methods (i.e. measurement method, visual inspection, etc.) and a reaction plan if product is found which does not meet the specifications. Your process flow diagram does not cover this.
Ah - those details are in the PR and WI documents referenced. None the less I am getting the strong impression that just making the recognized spreadsheet will save a lot of headache with an auditor. Thanks for the input.:thanx:
 

bobdoering

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#14
Your note suggests you are going for TS.

7.5.1.1 of TS16949:2002 states "The organisation shall develop control plans at the system, subsystem, component and/or material level for the product supplied, ............." I doubt if any STA engineer would accept WI's instead of a control plan with any PPAP submission.
Talk to your customer's STA engineer for clarification.
And, don't forget the CSR's!!! Whoo Hoo!:biglaugh:
 
P

pog451

#15
Operators are well trained, and a spec sheet follows each order through the production process with the details of which steps it requires, what the test settings are, what the measurements are etc.
That doesnt sound like what I would call "paperless":notme:

...but its a sound way of working that I have used in the past and it solves a lot of documentation problems.:applause:

At this point, from all I have read, I am still entirely unclear as to what the blazes our control plan would look like if we did have one. I made up a set of "family" control plans based on the "must have one for every product" scenario, but that would be ridiculous overkill to have posted at each production step :bonk: as the operator really only needs the details for their part of the process.
Youre almost there. The CP is what comes out of your FMEA process and lists all control activities for one product or process. While it may be appropriate for simple process or products to have CP=WI, normally the WI is an extract from the CP with additional information for operators (like drawings, photois, diagrams)

And the CP I have thus far only includes the production process. If I try to include receiving and shipping it definately will not fit on one page.
Why should it?

Again, what does your FMEA say? If your Recieving and shipping processes are so fool-proof as to not need running controls they may not need to be in the CP.

Are recieving and shipping potential sources of non-conformity?

If there are any auditors "listening" I'd like some feedback on this thought - Have one CP that details the receiving & shipping with a generic [see family CP &/or spec sheet for production details] inbetween.
I think youre missing the point here. The hierarchy is Process flow / CP / WI. The PF details stages of the process, the CP shows you where and what to test and the WI how.

Depending on what you already have in place and how complex the processes/products are that youre dealing with, the CP could be a digest of your test WIs or your WIs are annotated extracts from your CP. At worst its copy and paste.

Whether your production needs this on a product or process basis only you can tell.

Hope this helps.

Andrew
 
P

prototyper

#17
It sounds as if the OP isnt yet doing PPAP. If he was, then the point would be moot, as the FMEA would generate his CP


Andrew.
Agreed, but I didn't want to over complicate my response.

When dealing with automotive customers the complete APQP process will need to be as per the APQP and PPAP manuals. The format of documentation and information included may vary with individual Customer Specific Requirements, but they all want a well documented system following the basic requirements of TS16949.

Mick
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#18
Most of the examples of Control Plans I've seen here are spreadsheets or tables. If all the pertinent information is already contained in the Work Instructions for all the processes, is it really necessary to regurgitate it all into a spreadsheet?:bonk:

Thanks for your input!
In the end this is going to be between you and your customers, not you and a CB auditor. If you want TS16949 registration, you're going to have to reconcile the issue before the auditor gets there. Your customers may or may not waive the requirement for an AIAG-format control plan, but it's going to be up to them. If you do get waivers, they'll need to be documented so you can show them to the CB auditor when the time comes.
 
Q

qualityboi

#19
Pretty much way Jim says...Its purpose is mainly to show the controls you have in place for your critical processes all in one easy to access location. The Control Plan (CP) does not have to list what is done during the control just the actual control itself.

Added value should come why you are efficient at using the control plan to recognize missing, weak and strong controls in your overall processes.

By my own experience trying to fight not having to do control plans in the AIAG APQP format is much more difficult than just filling out the form. Put the time in to make money and get the market, don't waste your time on fighting for principle, you won't win and it will just anger the auditors and customers who have a lot more experience in them than you do.
- resistance is futile.
 

smryan

Perspective.
#20
It sounds as if the OP isnt yet doing PPAP. If he was, then the point would be moot, as the FMEA would generate his CP

Andrew.
Oh my. Who's the "OP"? And no, we have no PPAP in place yet and I am planning to do our first FMEA soon - but I'm not sure what or where to target first. How big is the scope of a FMEA? Is there some priority list somewhere? :( But I suppose those questions should go into another thread with a enw title.
 
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