Control Plans and the Shipping Process

Brizilla

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
We just had a finding in our TS recert audit on not having the shipping process in our control plans. I'm fairly new to the company and TS (less than a year).

I've searched through the Cove and I find that it appears some have it and some don't.

We are a Tier 3 Supplier. We did 124 PPAP's last year to multiple customers who serve virtually all the car companies. No one ever raised a question about our control plan.

As a company, we've been doing PPAP's for at least ten years and its never been questioned. What are your opinions on this?
 
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R

Rand T

#2
I think it is something that needs to be included. I did a lot of PPAP's for many years, and it is something that was always done for both Control Plans and FMEA's.
 
S

Sturmkind

#3
It probably depends on the business and the risk of shipment error.


In automotive our customers expect an ASN (Advanced Shipping Notice) to be electronically sent when the product is shipped to the receiving plant. If it is not sent within 'X' minutes of the shipment leaving the dock, then a customer dis-satisfaction notification is generated along with an administrative fee. There are several reasons for an ASN not to be properly generated and a few reasons why a properly generated ASN may not be received by the customer.

Consequently, we specifically address this in our control plans and PFMEAs.
 

Brizilla

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
It probably depends on the business and the risk of shipment error.


In automotive our customers expect an ASN (Advanced Shipping Notice) to be electronically sent when the product is shipped to the receiving plant. If it is not sent within 'X' minutes of the shipment leaving the dock, then a customer dis-satisfaction notification is generated along with an administrative fee. There are several reasons for an ASN not to be properly generated and a few reasons why a properly generated ASN may not be received by the customer.

Consequently, we specifically address this in our control plans and PFMEAs.
We don't do ASN's. I guess I'm really asking is since our customers already approve our process and sign all of our PPAP's why is this a big deal to a registrar auditor? We've had maybe half a dozen requests from customer SQE's specifically for Control Plans and no one ever has questioned it.

Customer satisfaction has been achieved. Why stir the pot?
 
S

Sturmkind

#5
I fully agreee with you, Brizilla (I love your sig. line, BTW).

Too many auditors impose a bias that may be a 'should' but is not a 'shall'.

Also, the AIAG group pointed out in the last roll-out of the MSA 4th edition that the only legally binding document is the PPAP manual, the rest are suggested practices (including MSA). This according to Greg Gruska (Omnex), Joe Bransky (GM), Russ Hopkins (Ford), James Bruin (Chrysler Group LLC), Mike Down (GM), and Fred Czubak (Chrysler Group LLC).

Since they are the committee, I tended to believe them.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#6
Too many auditors impose a bias that may be a 'should' but is not a 'shall'.

Also, the AIAG group pointed out in the last roll-out of the MSA 4th edition that the only legally binding document is the PPAP manual, the rest are suggested practices (including MSA). This according to Greg Gruska (Omnex), Joe Bransky (GM), Russ Hopkins (Ford), James Bruin (Chrysler Group LLC), Mike Down (GM), and Fred Czubak (Chrysler Group LLC).
They also said that customer specific requirements trump them. Have to be sure there was no customer requirement for shipping in the control plan. It would not surprise me - with shipping damage, labeling errors, ASN errors or late ASNs, etc. - that shipping be asked to be included. It's about more than just the product.
 

Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted Information Resource
#7
We just had a finding in our TS recert audit on not having the shipping process in our control plans. I'm fairly new to the company and TS (less than a year).
Is it being tagged as a non-conformance ?

Whatsoever, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have shipping process in your Control plan, unless otherwise you come up with a strong justification. Not for the sake of your CB, but for your own Organization.
 

Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
#8
Is it being tagged as a non-conformance ?

Whatsoever, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have shipping process in your Control plan, unless otherwise you come up with a strong justification. Not for the sake of your CB, but for your own Organization.
Before you have a control plan, you have a process flow and a process FMEA.

Process FMEA for shipping has to be developed first. From my Honda years, we had a detailed FMEA on just labeling and preventing labeling errors.
 

Kales Veggie

People: The Vital Few
#9
We just had a finding in our TS recert audit on not having the shipping process in our control plans. I'm fairly new to the company and TS (less than a year).

I've searched through the Cove and I find that it appears some have it and some don't.

We are a Tier 3 Supplier. We did 124 PPAP's last year to multiple customers who serve virtually all the car companies. No one ever raised a question about our control plan.

As a company, we've been doing PPAP's for at least ten years and its never been questioned. What are your opinions on this?
Most of your customers probably do not understand the TS standard completely or have only knowledge of certain clauses. From my experience, a lot of improvements can still be made in the supply chain with the TS and the core tools.

No surprise. It is you as the supplier to understand the standard, because you have to face the external auditor.

First question: Is the shipping process (and packaing, labeling, and finished goods storage) in your process FMEA? (if not, that is where you start, including updating the process flow, if not already in there).

Were you able to show the auditor your FMEA showing the controls for the shipping process?
 
#10
Remember the basics the Process Flow should show what happens from Goods in to Goods out and therefore this would dicate that should have considered the control required in the Goods out process which need to be controlled for each part against what the customer has determined as being required. Remember not all customers work in the same way, e.g. shipping label information, size, location etc.
 
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