Control plans - TS 16949:2002 requires corrective actions to be addressed

B

Bill Ryan - 2007

#11
Howard Atkins said:
Here is written "defect handling procedure" this is not exactly a reaction plan , if I use a customer mandated document do I also have to ensure that it is in accordance with the standard?
Can't open the ".doc" attachment right now but I'll try again later. Even without seeing it, my response would be that a customer required document or procedure ALWAYS supercedes the Standard requirement (I really don't enjoy using superlative (?) terms like "always" and "never". Normally it comes back to "bite me" but I would have an issue with an auditor who told me to do something the way a Standard says if it would be in conflict with something mandated by my customer). That's not to say I wouldn't try to learn why my customer "needs" it done in a manner conflicting with a Standard.

As always - JMHO.

Andrews - Have we helped you out or not quite yet?
 
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Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#12
Howard,
I like your flow charts, practical and informative. Its been a while since i've that basic layout used. used to use a similar layout in the heat exchanger industry.
On a lighter side, I see that all of your operators have a big smile except one. Must be the quality person.
 
A

Andrews

#14
Sorry for the delayed response.We were busy with the implementation.

The approach we have taken is as follows:
Step 1: We review the internal rejections on a monthly basis.
Step 2: The top 3 contributors are taken for corrective actions.Priortisation does not apply to customer complaints.All complaints are taken for corrective action.
Step 3: PFMEA is reviewed and the corrective action taken now is addressed in the recommended actions column with target date.
Step 4: The control plan is updated to address this corrective action

What are your comments on this approach.

Thanks
Andy
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#15
Bill Ryan said:
Even without seeing it, my response would be that a customer required document or procedure ALWAYS supercedes the Standard requirement
Yes! We shouldn't get hung up over what a given document or process is called; it's the substance of it that counts, and above all, compliance with customer requirements is king. I always tell my suppliers that what we give them are default requirements, and if they have an idea or way of doing things that makes more sense, then we should talk about it. Never let a standard get in the way of what works.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#16
The only thing I would question is the monthly review and the idea of containment. It seems to me that having a rigid once-a-month review allows for an awful lot of time for things to go wrong. "Opportunities" should be grasped dynamically, as close in time to the occurrence as possible. The monthly (or other periodic) reviews should deal with the effectiveness of the actions taken at the point of attack, and whether or not they should be standardized.
 
A

Andrews

#17
Is it possible to find out the root cause of problems if rejections are reviewed on a daily basis?

We have our daily production meeting where we try to analyse the rejections? But finding the root cause becomes difficult because
a) time is spent on analysis of some other major rejection or
b) there is insufficient data to proceed further.

What are your comments.

Thanks
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#18
Andrews said:
Is it possible to find out the root cause of problems if rejections are reviewed on a daily basis?
It depends on the nature of the problem. Root causes might be easy to see, but sometimes investigation is needed that will extend indefinitely. My point was that the process of identifying causes should begin as close in time as possible to the event.


Andrews said:
We have our daily production meeting where we try to analyse the rejections? But finding the root cause becomes difficult because
a) time is spent on analysis of some other major rejection or
b) there is insufficient data to proceed further.
When there are multiple problems, it's wise to attack them in Pareto style. Thus the most significant (using whatever definition is appropriate) should be dealt with first. This doesn't mean that less-significant problems should be ignored, of course. If you're in a constant state of firefighting that precludes addressing issues in a timely manner (i.e., before they can happen again, or have babies) then you have a systemic issue that needs to be addressed.
 
A

Andrews

#19
Some of our customers have advised us to add " Reaction plans" to " process characteristic" as "corrective actions" for "product characteristics". They say that this is a method chosen by AIAG to ensure that all organisations identify process chaarcteristics. Because all companies(including ours) identify only product characteristics except in cases of special processes like heat treatment, plating etc.
 
B

Bill Ryan - 2007

#20
Andrews said:
Some of our customers have advised us to add " Reaction plans" to " process characteristic" as "corrective actions" for "product characteristics". They say that this is a method chosen by AIAG to ensure that all organisations identify process chaarcteristics. Because all companies(including ours) identify only product characteristics except in cases of special processes like heat treatment, plating etc.
I don't understand. Maybe it's just a semantics thing but the statement "add " Reaction plans" to " process characteristic" as "corrective actions" for "product characteristics" seems to do nothing more than add confusion. Reaction Plans on the Control Plan may have nothing to do with Corrective Actions. They are merely what steps are taken if a nonconformance is found in either a Product or Process characteristic.
 
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