Controlled Forms - To what extent do forms need to be controlled?

J

JodiB

#21
playing the numbers game...

In my company, we not only have numbers for every single form but now I'm being requested to assign form numbers for every template (proposal, technical writing, project quality plan....) that we use, and also even to the Excel workbooks that are used to derive project cost tracking and bid preparation.

Do you think this is a good thing?

I thought that simply by having these templates in the secured folder for approved forms and templates, everyone should know and accept that these templates are the current approved ones. But my boss wants them numbered and revision level kept because he says there is no difference between a form and a template and has challenged me to distinguish the two. I thought I gave him a convincing answer (such as the "form becoming a quality record") but he correctly pointed out that the project quality plan is a record of project planning, as are the project specific procedures that we write, and the proposal is a record of customer and other requirements, etc.

Also with two offices in other countries, they tend to alter the forms and templates for their own use, so even our vacation request form has a number and revision level so that we can be sure that they are using the right one. By using a number and not just a name, I can indicate the regional differences by using Form 52 as the corporate one, 52s for Singapore, etc. and we can rev them separately. I guess we could do the same with naming but it seems to flow better with numbers.

With the first Excel Workbook that I numbered here, the first sheet was also issued as a stand alone. It is the informational sheet that is completed by our regional offices to send us with the information that is needed for the proposal which we generate. So we have a Form 85 and Form 85a (the first sheet). If we ever see a need to spin off another separate sheet, it could easily be done.

As a newbie, I'm still feeling my way around this and creating things as I go. Without a doubt, within a couple of years after we get this whole registration thing behind us, I'll be ready to reinvent what we're doing. But I'm trying to get it as right as I can on the first shot:D
 
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U

Unregistered

#22
Has anyone ever found a root cause of customer complaint to be the use of an obsolete form. I doubt it very much, never in my 12 years experience. Hence I would not control any forms. Also with the prolifieration of PC's and MS Office software where would you draw the line. Is a list created using MS Excel and held on a server a form, and should it be controlled ? If so you will probably find that you need to employ about ten people to maintain the control system on all your software files.
 
E

energy

#23
Wow!

Originally posted by Unregistered
Has anyone ever found a root cause of customer complaint to be the use of an obsolete form. I doubt it very much, never in my 12 years experience. Hence I would not control any forms
With that rationale, having the customer complain before having to develop and follow a procedure, we can skip most of the standard.:biglaugh: Look at all the $$$ you can save. Go for it!:bonk: :smokin:
 
J

James Gutherson

#24
Customers complaining about getting the wrong form. It's one of the most common complaints here!

We have 30 odd regional offices spread throughout the state and I find that some of them are giving customers forms that are 5 or more years out of date.

The customer certainly complains when we tell them we can't proceed until they supply us with something that wasn't on the out of date form.

Controlling forms is one of the main drivers for our quality system.

You need to think a bit outside your own box in the Cove:)
 
E

energy

#25
Re: playing the numbers game...

Originally posted by Lucinda
I thought that simply by having these templates in the secured folder for approved forms and templates, everyone should know and accept that these templates are the current approved ones. But my boss wants them numbered and revision level kept
Lucinda,

That's how I have it here and the procedure states that documents on the secured drive with read only access, are the latest and greatest. They can print and use them. But, I do have the forms numbered with revisions and a page 2 for authorizing signatures and a revision history section. Just like a procedure. When we use the form, it shows sheet 1 of 2. Everybody looks for sheet 2 like something's missing. We have a nice bold, italicized note in a prominent location on sheet 1 that says "Sheet 2 of 2 of this document is for Document Authorization use ONLY. Works for us, but we aren't registered yet. We'll see how it sits with the registrar. Our consultant doesn't seem to think it's a problem. Just offering my opinion to an underwater goddess:eek: :smokin:
 
U

Unregistered

#26
Thanks for the good replies guys - I was just speaking from my own experience. Obviously we must be proactive in preventing complaints, I would not suggest sitting back and doing nothing until a complaint comes in. I agree with an earlier post however that every form should relate to a procedure, which is controlled (naturally), if the procedure defines the form content, how to complete it, and where it goes then the actual format, and hence form control is a very minor issue which is unlikely to have significant impact in a manufacturing environment.
 
E

energy

#27
Absolutely!

Originally posted by Unregistered
hence form control is a very minor issue which is unlikely to have significant impact in a manufacturing environment.
I totally agree with you when it comes to in-house activity. But, it's a freebie finding for an auditor. Why give them any extra ammunition to work with. In a previous life, in a place without lots of computers, we had 15 hardcopy procedure books distributed to all Department heads. A very large Customer in the Aircraft Industry sent two auditors for two full days to audit us as part of a pre-qualification supplier ritual. The very first thing they asked for was a Master List of all documents. They randomly selected three books from the shop and office. They selected three documents and went to each department and had them produce the book, serialized and assigned to them. They looked at the three documents in each book. We scored a 100. That was the end of any discussion on document control. If they had seen any inconsistancy from book to book or book to list, they would have made a big deal of it and dug in deeper to make sure it was just an isolated thing. At their closing meeting, they produced a book, mine, and told the Company owners "This is how we wish everybody controlled documents". I never forgot the importance they placed on this issue. It paved the way for a rather easy audit. Auditors may not know the pecularities of your business, but anybody can tell (even me) :rolleyes: if you are serious about Document Control. :ca: :smokin:
 
J

JodiB

#28
I have no problem controlling forms because they in some way direct a process or provide record evidence. But what I'm talking about are "templates". And heaven help me, I've already been in a discussion with my boss over the difference. (I think I've already mentioned that in this thread).

These templates are for things like faxes, or general correspondence, or for the technical writing that we do. They mainly consist of a header, or a header and footer, and the page formatting is there so if you're typing a technical procedure and you choose Header 1, you get what you want.

I set up a Correspondence folder in with the controlled forms and have things like the fax template there, but I have no intention of maintaining revision levels on something like this!! If the corporate secretary tells me : here, we want to use this fax template now", then I'll just replace the current one with the new one. No big deal. To me, simply by having the templates there means that they are controlled enough - for being templates!

The forms are also in this protected area and are read-only and sheet protected, etc. but they do carry numbers and I agree with doing that. They need more control than a stupid proposal template or fax template and the revision control provides that.

(I had someone tell me the other day that he wants to make up an email template and have it stored in the controlled forms folder because it is easier for him to get it from there than on his c drive! This is just for his personal use mind you; no one else has ever expressed an interest in such a thing so I suggested that we print it out and post it on the bulletin board (we are a small office) and see what the response is. If he is the only one who wants it, he needs to keep it somewhere different. )
 
E

energy

#29
What?

Lucinda, Lucinda
I would have never given a thought to Authorizing Fax Templates. How about the stationary the company uses to conduct normal business? We recently added a line on the letterhead to give the impression that we are part of a larger company’s Division. We always were, but someone decided to show it. We are not about to trash existing stationary because this isn’t on it. All current “important” letters going out will be the latest. Supplier correspondence and other mailings we do, existing stationary will be used until the old inventory is exhausted. How about envelopes? You can get crazy with this if you really think the standard mandates it. I do know that proposals become records and are filed in the job folder. Do you think an auditor will get a case of the *** because the faxes and letterheads are different? Never would have thought that. I don’t know whether to thank you or spank you for making me even think about something so trivial. Have a great holiday!:ko: :smokin:
 
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J

James Gutherson

#30
Lucinda, we do the same thing here - letter, fax, memo templates etc.
I have chosen to control them the same as forms, work instructions, procedures etc. This is for 2 reasons, because we have had trouble in the past with different versions popping up around the place and we want to put forward a professional image and have consistency in the documentation we produce. Secondlywe need to meet regulatory requirements. The Australian government recently changed it's tax system, and a result of this is that every business needs to have a ABN (Australian Business Number). It was decided at one stage that we would include this information on all correspondeance, so there was one change in document templates, then it was decided by the legal department that this was not a good idea (I don't know why) so it was removed, another template change.

The best way for me to handle this was to incorporate the templates into the doc control system. I do admit that our doc control notification is pretty simple, consisting of the document name and the date last modified shown in the footer. Besides, with networked computer systems doc control these days is a no brainer.
 
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