E
energy
Watch out
Come into my livingroom said the dried, burnt pine cone eater to the fire girl
:ca:
Come into my livingroom said the dried, burnt pine cone eater to the fire girl
:ca:
F
Fire Girl
Thanks for the compliment E Wall!
Yes the whole military example is precisely what I do- the front of each procedure is a Revision Log with the description of changes and revision etc. This time I have attached a sample procedure to show you what I do. So I have several manuals:
Quality Policy Manual
Quality Procedure Manual
Operations Manual
Tooling Operations Manual
QC Manual
Plus forms, drawings, set up sheets for each job.
In each of the above mentioned manuals, I have anywhere from 5 to 20 sections. Take a look at the procedure I have attached and you'll see what I mean. When we revamp the system I am getting rid of at least 4 of those manuals and using flow charts which should be easier to understand and maintain.
No I don't have a main chart that records all my current revisions. I did at the last place I worked. And the same auditor asked for it all the time. I guess the reason I never gave it a thought was because he's never asked for it since he started auditing here. Weird, eh? I guess no weirder than candied pine cones.....
Thanks muchly
FG
Yes the whole military example is precisely what I do- the front of each procedure is a Revision Log with the description of changes and revision etc. This time I have attached a sample procedure to show you what I do. So I have several manuals:
Quality Policy Manual
Quality Procedure Manual
Operations Manual
Tooling Operations Manual
QC Manual
Plus forms, drawings, set up sheets for each job.
In each of the above mentioned manuals, I have anywhere from 5 to 20 sections. Take a look at the procedure I have attached and you'll see what I mean. When we revamp the system I am getting rid of at least 4 of those manuals and using flow charts which should be easier to understand and maintain.
No I don't have a main chart that records all my current revisions. I did at the last place I worked. And the same auditor asked for it all the time. I guess the reason I never gave it a thought was because he's never asked for it since he started auditing here. Weird, eh? I guess no weirder than candied pine cones.....
Thanks muchly
FG
Last edited by a moderator:
F
Fire Girl
"Screw you, energy", quoth the raven.
Just teasin' you. How do you manage to get somethin' nasty out of nothin' but burnt pine cones? Whatta guy????
Al
Just to let you know that it's hard to burn pine cones just right without incinerating them completely. It may take a while to perfect the process.
I will e-mail and send you a copy of a sample of one of my procedures since I just realized that I have no idea how to attach them to posts in here.
My head is full of scrambled eggs today.
FG
Just teasin' you. How do you manage to get somethin' nasty out of nothin' but burnt pine cones? Whatta guy????
Al
Just to let you know that it's hard to burn pine cones just right without incinerating them completely. It may take a while to perfect the process.
I will e-mail and send you a copy of a sample of one of my procedures since I just realized that I have no idea how to attach them to posts in here.
My head is full of scrambled eggs today.
FG
E
energy
How come?
FG,
Why would you go back to zero with this method? It's a great method, especially if you have lots of pages. If anything, after you go through the alphabet, you go through it again. Like:RevAA, BB, etc..Or numbers starting with 001, 002, etc.
What do you mean by nasty?
I was referring to the old spider to the fly saying.) O.K., it's "my parlor" not the living room! Geez! Al D. didn't give me the screw. Lighten up or I'll be on the next stagecoach or dogsled up there.
Originally posted by Fire Girl
Thanks for the compliment E Wall!
Yes the whole military example is precisely what I do- the front of each procedure is a Revision Log with the description of changes and revision etc
FG
FG,
Why would you go back to zero with this method? It's a great method, especially if you have lots of pages. If anything, after you go through the alphabet, you go through it again. Like:RevAA, BB, etc..Or numbers starting with 001, 002, etc.
What do you mean by nasty?
I was referring to the old spider to the fly saying.
) O.K., it's "my parlor" not the living room! Geez! Al D. didn't give me the screw. Lighten up or I'll be on the next stagecoach or dogsled up there. 
Candied? Like in edible?
When I read your first message I somehow substituted scented (probably since I've never heard of candied pine cones) which we burn here. They are a great accelerant in the fireplace, and decorative too (we get the cinnamon scented ones from the hobby shop or grocery store). In the fall I place them throughout the keeping room and living room, when the smell wears off we burn 'em. I really would like to know more about candied pinecones...with the company announcing 20% staff reduction by March, I just may need a new job! Just kidding J
I haven't received an e-mail from you but will be looking for it. What I don't understand is what you are wanting to try that is different? Your system (other than needing to apply a rev level and not zeroing it out) seems effective and less cumbersome than the one I use. {I see Energy and I are thinking along the same lines again....I'm just too darn longwinded, not to mention contantly interruped!}
Later, Eileen
When I read your first message I somehow substituted scented (probably since I've never heard of candied pine cones) which we burn here. They are a great accelerant in the fireplace, and decorative too (we get the cinnamon scented ones from the hobby shop or grocery store). In the fall I place them throughout the keeping room and living room, when the smell wears off we burn 'em. I really would like to know more about candied pinecones...with the company announcing 20% staff reduction by March, I just may need a new job!
Just kidding JI haven't received an e-mail from you but will be looking for it. What I don't understand is what you are wanting to try that is different? Your system (other than needing to apply a rev level and not zeroing it out) seems effective and less cumbersome than the one I use. {I see Energy and I are thinking along the same lines again....I'm just too darn longwinded
, not to mention contantly interruped!}Later, Eileen
E
energy
Re: Candied? Like in edible?
Eileen,
It was actually your previous post that got Fire Girl to explain the system she uses. I like the method, but the documents here, except the Quality manual are between 4 to 7 pages long. That includes the 1st which is basically a cover and the last which is a revision sheet. So, it doesn't fit in well here. I've also worked where the revision had to have a letter symbol in the paragraph that was revised. I like that, too. Of course, all great minds think alike.
Eileen,
It was actually your previous post that got Fire Girl to explain the system she uses. I like the method, but the documents here, except the Quality manual are between 4 to 7 pages long. That includes the 1st which is basically a cover and the last which is a revision sheet. So, it doesn't fit in well here. I've also worked where the revision had to have a letter symbol in the paragraph that was revised. I like that, too. Of course, all great minds think alike.
Excuse me while I cover my butt...
> However, I differ from Marc's opinion because I believe
> even small companies (if there is any hope for
> growth/expansion) will benefit by having revision level
> system in place that would grow with them.
That sounds good, but many of my clients are mom and pop who are not the least interested in expanding. Two I have in mind off hand have been in business for over 50 years. They're happy at their size and have little to no interest in growth.
The problem comes when one tries to ascribe their paradigm of what a good business is. Some bow to the Growth and Expansion God. Some (many) do not - they're happy where they're at. In the cases I have in mind, their employee level and output level has been stable for 15 to 20 years. As one told me: "Well, we could look for new business but we'd just be complicating things. We're happy as we are." It's a real neat place. It's almost like going back to the 1950's and Leave It To Beaver. The folks are laid back, none of the stuff going on like we read about in the forums. To be honest, they do quite well and if I was looking for a job and they would hire me I'd probably take it.
I put One Size Does NOT Fit All! in my 'signature' here in these forums because many times people respond to other peoples questions with their own company in mind, with their own paradigms. I worked in military manufacturing back in the 1980's and early 1990's. Other than the medical device industry and the nuclear industry (or maybe semi-conductor or such), you won't find a more document intensive situation. And I've worked in companies as large and multi-national as Motorola. Now - you want to talk about document control...
I write this only to say - do what is appropriate for your business now. Sure - if you expect to be opening multiple plants in the future and have a 'business plan' (read road map), then you should be looking at issues including document control and your road map should help. Look to the future - definitely. But, temper yourself with common sense. Businesses evolve. A document control system will evolve as well.
The best example I have of this - it's not document related but the principle is the same - is an IS fella at a client's facility a few years back. We talked about his planning. He told me one of the neat things was he got the job he has (in it for about 2 years at that time) because the last guy over spent. The last guy prepared for unprecedented growth. He had enough disk space that the current IS guy figured 5+ years before they could ever begin to use up that space. Not long after, the company got a contract which nearly doubled their business and I spoke with the IS guy to find out about how things were coming. When I asked about the disk space issue and how a doubling of business (basically data processing for certain large companies) affected that, he said: "We still have plenty. What you don't understand is the idea of scaleability which is the idea that you can incrementally - as needed - add things like extra disk space. We're still 4 years from needing more disk space. You also have to understand that we process data so disk space is not a sensitive issue here - most everything is backed up onto tape after we process it." And this after a doubling of their business. NOTE: Their biggest problem was hiring and training all the extra people they needed. AND - this is a very aggressive company seeking as much market share and as much growth as possible. Their business plan even considered the possibility of such an unexpected windfall, so they were ready facility wise and for the most part equipment wise.
Moral of story - don't go overboard but keep your business plan in mind. And... some companies are happy at the size they're at. :thedeal:
> However, I differ from Marc's opinion because I believe
> even small companies (if there is any hope for
> growth/expansion) will benefit by having revision level
> system in place that would grow with them.
That sounds good, but many of my clients are mom and pop who are not the least interested in expanding. Two I have in mind off hand have been in business for over 50 years. They're happy at their size and have little to no interest in growth.
The problem comes when one tries to ascribe their paradigm of what a good business is. Some bow to the Growth and Expansion God. Some (many) do not - they're happy where they're at. In the cases I have in mind, their employee level and output level has been stable for 15 to 20 years. As one told me: "Well, we could look for new business but we'd just be complicating things. We're happy as we are." It's a real neat place. It's almost like going back to the 1950's and Leave It To Beaver. The folks are laid back, none of the stuff going on like we read about in the forums. To be honest, they do quite well and if I was looking for a job and they would hire me I'd probably take it.
I put One Size Does NOT Fit All! in my 'signature' here in these forums because many times people respond to other peoples questions with their own company in mind, with their own paradigms. I worked in military manufacturing back in the 1980's and early 1990's. Other than the medical device industry and the nuclear industry (or maybe semi-conductor or such), you won't find a more document intensive situation. And I've worked in companies as large and multi-national as Motorola. Now - you want to talk about document control...
I write this only to say - do what is appropriate for your business now. Sure - if you expect to be opening multiple plants in the future and have a 'business plan' (read road map), then you should be looking at issues including document control and your road map should help. Look to the future - definitely. But, temper yourself with common sense. Businesses evolve. A document control system will evolve as well.
The best example I have of this - it's not document related but the principle is the same - is an IS fella at a client's facility a few years back. We talked about his planning. He told me one of the neat things was he got the job he has (in it for about 2 years at that time) because the last guy over spent. The last guy prepared for unprecedented growth. He had enough disk space that the current IS guy figured 5+ years before they could ever begin to use up that space. Not long after, the company got a contract which nearly doubled their business and I spoke with the IS guy to find out about how things were coming. When I asked about the disk space issue and how a doubling of business (basically data processing for certain large companies) affected that, he said: "We still have plenty. What you don't understand is the idea of scaleability which is the idea that you can incrementally - as needed - add things like extra disk space. We're still 4 years from needing more disk space. You also have to understand that we process data so disk space is not a sensitive issue here - most everything is backed up onto tape after we process it." And this after a doubling of their business. NOTE: Their biggest problem was hiring and training all the extra people they needed. AND - this is a very aggressive company seeking as much market share and as much growth as possible. Their business plan even considered the possibility of such an unexpected windfall, so they were ready facility wise and for the most part equipment wise.
Moral of story - don't go overboard but keep your business plan in mind. And... some companies are happy at the size they're at. :thedeal:
E
energy
You said it!
hear hear, or is it here here? You hit on the thing that it is most prevalent in particular posts, including mine. We try to impart what has worked for US ! The idea, as you know very well, is to share our life experiences. It may not be suitable to everyone, will definitely open itself to argument about it's worthiness and generally fuels the thread for discussion. But, that's why you have the icons to temper the enthusiasm. You are not CYA, just rendering an opinion. There are so many posts, I read them all, that have discussed the poster's topic in great detail, previously. Sometimes, it's like the movie Groundhog's Day. But, occasionally you run across that one that is a challenge and an arena to strut your stuff. Go for it...I'm not shy. Not too smart, but not shy at all! Love this Icon
hear hear, or is it here here? You hit on the thing that it is most prevalent in particular posts, including mine. We try to impart what has worked for US ! The idea, as you know very well, is to share our life experiences. It may not be suitable to everyone, will definitely open itself to argument about it's worthiness and generally fuels the thread for discussion. But, that's why you have the icons to temper the enthusiasm. You are not CYA, just rendering an opinion. There are so many posts, I read them all, that have discussed the poster's topic in great detail, previously. Sometimes, it's like the movie Groundhog's Day. But, occasionally you run across that one that is a challenge and an arena to strut your stuff. Go for it...I'm not shy. Not too smart, but not shy at all!
Love this Icon
In part I posted the above because I have had enough clients tell me they're happy where they are. No customer problems. They live well and everyone is happy. More business (money) is not an over powering factor. They have family lives. Low stress. They're happy.
Not every business (thank God) is as ruthless as - well, let's use the extreme of Microsoft. If I was Bill gates I would have bowed out long ago - when you hit $500 million or so in your personal bank account, heck - you'll have problems spending the interest. I'd have gone off and enjoyed life. But then again, I guess that's how Bill enjoys life. I don't know - I'm a liberal and not much of a business person... :thedeal:
Not every business (thank God) is as ruthless as - well, let's use the extreme of Microsoft. If I was Bill gates I would have bowed out long ago - when you hit $500 million or so in your personal bank account, heck - you'll have problems spending the interest. I'd have gone off and enjoyed life. But then again, I guess that's how Bill enjoys life. I don't know - I'm a liberal and not much of a business person... :thedeal:
We use a paper system.
QM, SP and WIs are controlled by issue date with the previous issue date on the document. If one page changes the issue date is changed on all pages. Our system corresponds with the ISO standard eg. QM 4.5, SP 4.5, WI 05-01,02..... We have a signed copy of all in document control and save the prvious issue to show the change.
FMs are controlled by signature and issue date with signed copies in document control.
We have had no problems to date.
QM, SP and WIs are controlled by issue date with the previous issue date on the document. If one page changes the issue date is changed on all pages. Our system corresponds with the ISO standard eg. QM 4.5, SP 4.5, WI 05-01,02..... We have a signed copy of all in document control and save the prvious issue to show the change.
FMs are controlled by signature and issue date with signed copies in document control.
We have had no problems to date.
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