Controlling 'Uncontrolled' Documents sent to us by Customers

[Jim Biz]

We are currently 9002 and do manufacture "from customer supplied blueprints"... Recently - I suppose due to ISO "Control" issues - one of our customers has begun sending us prints "to quote and manufacture with " that CLEARLY state "This is an uncontrolled document as of X/XX date."

How does one control an external document that is recieved as uncontrolled? (We've been hit with NCR's before by simply using an outdated internal form) Now from day one our customers "EXPECT us to rely on uncontrolled documentation.

Thoughts??

Regards
Jim

 

[E Wall]

'Uncontrolled Drawings'

Interesting problem Jim. I have to agree that I would have a problem with this too, but I'm going to offset that comment with a zinger question: How do you identify mfg requirments in your contract or procedures?

In our system I explain that 'controlled' documents (including dwgs) are those that will if you are issued a copy...you will recieve any update to the document. For 'uncontrolled' documents the copy you have is current when you recieved it but it is intended for short-term use only and is YOUR responsibility to verify what the current revision is before using any uncontrolled document as a reference.

What the customer may be saying is while they may update this part drawing, this supplier (your company) is to build/mfg parts to revision X received XX/XX/XX as per P.O. # X. But that is a big jump not knowing anything about the buisinesses you deal with. You also don't mention if you must sign and return a receipt notification.

I'm curious how others respond.
Best Wishes, Eileen

 

[Jim Biz]

How do you identify mfg requirments in your contract or procedures?

We actually Quote- / plan / accept the contract with the rev of the uncontrolled documentation recieved.

is YOUR responsibility to verify what the current revision is before using any uncontrolled document as a reference

In our situation this could only be "Assured" by hiring one fulltime person to daily check customer electronic records for any change to some 300-400 jobs released throught the shop weekly.

You also don't mention if you must sign and return a receipt notification.

This is actually done when the first quotation is submitted - no other notification of reciept is identified externally - but Change notices are circulated within our document system.

And to add to the confusion - even the electronic EDI ordering information does not specify what Revision is being ordered

Blanket contract releases for xxx part number is what we get

Regards
Jim

 

[E Wall]

Originally posted by Jim Biz
1. We actually Quote- / plan / accept the contract with the rev of the uncontrolled documentation recieved.

2. In our situation this could only be "Assured" by hiring one fulltime person to daily check customer electronic records for any change to some 300-400 jobs released throught the shop weekly.

IMHO since you do #1 you don't have the need for #2 which referred to definitions in my companies system (was meant as an example only to show that you could define controlled/uncontrolled documents however you wanted to suit your needs).

From your response, if I were auditing....I'd say you have it wrapped up and the rest is 'semantics' that can/will be used to argue individual point of views.

As far as the EDI ordering, doesn't the order include a part number revision level? When I worked with an automotive manchining shop, this is what identified the drawing to build to which was detailed in that revision level part # history. I was told at the time this was common, because you have 'replacement' orders even years later for older models/versions of parts.

PS: BTW I had a stamp made years ago, that said "Our Site - Controlled Copy" that I put on any external reference items - regarless of what stamps they come in with/or without.

 

[CarolX]

how we do it

Jim,

We have the same issue here. In my policy manual I stated that we manufacture to customer furnished drawing and had no control over the chances, stamps, etc.

We also use a revision level driven system. If a customer orders a part, and the rev level has changed, the order is automatically placed on hold.

The only problem we have had is one customer doesn't control their prints very well. They will order a rev D part, and when they receive it, they inspect it against a rev c and reject the part.

CarolX

 

[Jim Biz]

Carol - Been there - Also have seen our customer (s) upgrade the part in some cases 3- 4 rev levels - without telling us (kinda like hide & seek) or at times not notifying their own internal personnel of changes made.

At times I have had rejects to Rev levels that were changed 3 days after the quotation was accepted and two days before it was recieved at the customers plant. - "Not complaining bigtime about it tho" - just need to recognize the fact and deal with it as we go along. Our procedures call for a Recieved Date to be stamped on Prints we get (and there are printed fax dates as well). This does give me a timeline when need be.

Eileen - I have checked our EDI info and nothing on the PO for this particular customer gives us Rev level information - just xx parts of xxx part number - delivery date - price - order number.

Regards
Jim

 

[Marc]

> Also have seen our customer (s) upgrade the part in some
> cases 3- 4 rev levels - without telling us (kinda like
> hide & seek) or at times not notifying their own internal
> personnel of changes made.

To me this indicates a communications gap that your company might have to address because the customer won't. You might do this with a monthly 'check' with the customer as to their latest rev.

You can stand back and continue to manufacture to the PO. If they state a rev level on a PO - that's the target whether they update their print or not. For you to start building to a new rev level should require a PO revision.

Just some thoughts.

 

[JRKH]

Print Revisions

Jim,

Just thought I'd throw this into the mix. I see the same rev problems you do. I even have a customer (large ISO certified manufacturer) who changes drawings WITHOUT CHANGING THE REV LEVEL!! It plays heck with our programming and inspection documents because you can never be sure, and have to double check everything. Very Expensive.

For orders without Rev's on them or new drawing supplied, we state that this is interpreted as "no change from last run" and procede with the highest revision on file.

I like the "Controlled Here" stamp idea. Think I'll order one.


James