Corporate Culture - A general discussion

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selena15

#11
where is there sweet company, i'll have it :D
seriously , are you saying me that this is the common climate in the companies located in your area ???
 
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C

Craig H.

#15
halo
where are you
no feedback about my latest post pleaseeeeeeeeeee
i'm very curious aout this !:thanx:
I believe Steel's company is in North Carolina, and mine is in semi-rural Georgia (both USA). I can tell you that there are good companies and not-so-good ones, as I suspect there are anywhere.

Selena, are the attributes outlined by Steel unknown in your area? What things are important to you and your co-workers, and what is your company's culture like?
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#16
As Craig said, there are many good companies that practice good stewardship principles. One must do due diligence research prior to applying for positions if these types of stewardship characteristics are important to you (and I hope they are important to all of us, but we know from experience that this is not always the case).

More and more, responsible corporations are including stewardship roles in their day-to-day operations.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#17
hi cove

thank to make me happy because of your reply :yes:
when i proposed this question, i didn't want to see it from an far angle from the interest of the company,as well as this is the reality of our time.

your exposure of the womp is just great and i liked it a lot wes bucey, you got me wes because from these that you exposed come my confusing : as well as the commitment of all employees in the company is a condition to get this positive Womp and this womp is related to these conditions that you exposed, why the company sometimes ignore it and try to get the result and benefit as fast as possible and aren't aware enough about the consequence of their lack of attention : Iwould give some exmples

- for exemple the Infighting between responsibles and departements is know by the top management and it is just ignored it even sometime it is cost lot of money.

- I saw very important employees and almost irreplaceable resigned from their position but even this, the organisations keep stress the similar employeeor just to don’t give them the reward that he deserve it and of course it was very easy for these employees to find another opportunity eslewhere!

-Come back to the point that Graig raised. Is it common in the employee's mind to say "I’m just going to do my daily working hours" ? or they are enough committed to outstand this idea and give the best thing that they can.
- one Case : employee got some NC about his behave and all responsibles are aware of this, they resolve it and it can occur again which mean that this employee do it not because he thinks it should be like this but it is just in order to make happy the boss and his feeling is : that it is very additional manner and there not really need, !!!!!!!!!!! And if one visitor came from the back office, this is the managers or responsible who would call these employee to ask him to be aware because he will will get control. And later the managers were so happy that the visitor is very amazed about how every thing is perfect!!
- And relating to this, it is common in the view of people that as worker, they got carrier plan and seeking of the value into their commitment to their company that they can get from. and if yes, is it accepted by organisation or no ?

I mean it is great to be involved in the company's goal and participate in this womp that the company can show, but in my opinion, it will be better and kept in the same trend if this employee have a career plan and see that his daily task is going somewhere and give him the opportunity to improve himself and progress into the company. Aren’t you agree?

i can bring a lot of example, but see, i don't inderstand the top managment of several company when they lost many and many of their staff and the critical ones even they are aware that it would be difficult to replace them because the similar graduated person and above all experienced one is rare in the work market and it would cost them lot of money to bring a new guy, just gradueted and give him lot of training and spend lot of time to make this new employee in the same level than his previous fellow !

How any company can stand this kind of result and where is your womp wes bucey there ?
What is the common mind of the workers there ? in additional income that all of us are aware about, what are you seeking of ? do you got a career plan? and i'm not speaking of you great committed persons but about the people around you, in the street, in the country, ....etc

and this bring me to antother point :
the offshoring ! this is the fashion now, offshoring the organisation function to Asia, Africa... so mainly to low cost areas which a benefit to these countries as well as this is opportunity to resole their problem of unemployment

but are the organisation transfer too the same corporate culture to these areas in the same way or they take into the account the local cultural ? i see in several companies that they take this local culture in consideration but what this realy mean ? is the deming's advices is respected and in case of not is that got an impact to this womp ?
i'm not taken the expenditure of the weak people :lol: , i just want to inderstang if it has no negative result if the corporate culture is just focued in the benefit and not taking account of this wes conditions womp ??
sorry for the late, during the week , i'm usualy away of home....:D

but i'm waiting your feedback and nice week end

:nopity:
Thanks for taking the time to read my often long and winding narratives. I bet the language barrier makes it doubly hard.

Let's talk about WOMP, both positive and negative WOMP.
For organizations, the primary concern is to have positive WOMP among customers, because without customers, the organization ceases to exist. However, positive WOMP among current and prospective employees is also very important. If the employees are not having a good experience, they communicate that to each other and to prospective employees and soon those who are able to move to an organization with better work environment (physical, emotional, and psychological) do so, leaving only less capable and more desperate workers. In almost no time, employee turnover and general lack of motivation and initiative are reflected in quality of goods and services reaching customers and those customers able to change suppliers do so, often touching off a mass exodus of other customers. Thus, existing positive WOMP among customers can be quickly eroded by negative WOMP among employees. Therefore, it makes sense to provide a work experience for employees that leads to positive WOMP - employees eager to tell others what a great place xyz company is to work for.

THE REAL QUESTION:
why the company sometimes ignore it and try to get the result and benefit as fast as possible and aren't aware enough about the consequence of their lack of attention
Yes. This is a sad truth! Understand this – it is individual managers, NOT the “company” who do not understand even though they may be aware of the consequences. There may very well be individual managers who do understand, but FEAR [of being different] keeps them from speaking out or taking action to spread information and give empowerment to employees below them on the status level. Without that information and without empowerment to take action, the lower status employees will always be limited in being able to generate positive WOMP for the organization.

Let’s talk about the FEAR which those managers feel and how (if at all) that FEAR can be reduced to spur those managers to move forward and benefit themselves as well as the organization and other employees.

Often, especially in countries other than the USA, there is a social structure (culture) which has a long tradition of making it nearly impossible for a person to move up in status (called “class” or “caste” in some societies) – the FEAR of those in the higher status is they will be displaced by newcomers from the lower status and even find themselves reduced in status.

This certainly happens in revolutions where the ruling class is overthrown by the lower class and, because of their smaller numbers, may lose not only status, but their property and even their lives.

This FEAR of the lower status folks is fueled by the realization that it is ONLY “knowledge” and not “ability” which separates the upper and lower class. Coupled with the power to keep the lower class from gaining knowledge, the fearful upper class jealously guards its own benefits and refuses to see in the long term that EVERYONE can benefit if the entire organization benefits.

It doesn’t matter whether the organization is a manufacturing plant or an entire country, the principle remains the same – when EVERYONE has an opportunity to advance, there is more motivation to stick around and work on that advancement instead of just waiting around for a chance to escape.

A natural result of working on that advancement is looking for opportunities of “symbiosis” instead of “commensalism” – in symbiosis, different organisms each derive benefit from the other whereas in commensalism, one organism derives benefit from the other without harming the first, but gives no benefit back. (The worst relationship is “parasitism” – a fact of life in many organizations – where one organism benefits while actually harming the other and continually requires new organisms to continue the benefit for itself and its offspring.)

Many organizations are really commensal in operation, with most of the benefit one-sided in favor of the managers, but there is rarely true growth or expansion of the commensal organization, especially when it meets competition from an organization which has its managers and workers in a symbiotic relationship where EACH gains benefit when the other gains and therefore help each other make those gains.

The real question on the table is
“How can a lowly worker initiate change from a parasitic or commensal organization to a symbiotic one?”

Over the years, dozens, even hundreds of authors and philosophers have tackled that question.

Most of the more cogent and practical theories include these points (note this is merely MY summary of the various approaches and is not meant to be all-inclusive, but I caution that success depends not only on the skill of the person initiating these changes, but an awful lot of luck is involved in having the sun, moon, and stars all aligned perfectly):

The initiator must:

  • Identify a potential “champion” among the upper management who will find it in his own self-interest to become a collaborator in “nudging” the organization to becoming “symbiotic.” (This means the initiator must be willing to allow the champion to take any glory for the change.)
  • Educate the champion on the benefits of a symbiotic organization.
  • Help the champion create a plan to enlist other top management in the plan. (This means the champion must ALSO be willing to share some of the glory with his peers in top management.)
  • Help select and work with a “change manager” selected or appointed by the champion and his peers to introduce the plan for a symbiotic organization to each and every group of employees and help them accept the plan by showing how the plan is BETTER THAN the current status quo. (Sometimes a change means some individuals won’t fit with the new organization – this means disclosing the fact as soon as possible and working on making those who survive with the organization comfortable with the fact their benefit may mean a dislocation for the non-survivors. Usually this means a provision for “outplacement” of the nonsurvivors to another job so they aren’t destroyed, but merely relocated.)
None of these steps are easy or instinctual - they require knowledge, planning, and skill in persuasion.

Once the changes are in place, participate in a continual review of the changes as implemented to see they follow the plan. If yes, ask the question, “Can they be improved?” If not, “Why not?” and “How can we get back on track?”

[Note this is all based on PDCA (Plan, Do, Check, Act), whether the authors use that term or not.]

Above all, change initiated from a low-ranking employee is faced with a lot of barriers and most who try are not successful in reaching a level of change which approaches symbiosis. In many cases, folks are likely to consider themselves successful if they can move from parasitism to commensalism.

A TOPIC FOR ANOTHER THREAD
Offshoring may or may not be a symptom of poor management, but offshoring alone does not define bad management. The key to whether offshoring is a symptom of bad management lies in the REAL motivation of upper level managers to move production offshore. It's a big topic and one that deserves its own thread.
 
S

selena15

#18
hi
what steel discribed, is present in some companies as yours and in my previous job it was like this and trust me , it was a hard decision to leave but i took it. one of the reason and maybe you could find it :bonk:but i wanted to have different experiences and that company was very committed and very nice...etc. but i said to myself that if i want to become more experienced , it won't be by resuming my experience in one area where every thing is commited, and almost as a dream. and trust on me, sometimes i wish if i wasn't so right. to make it short, i would tell you

steel's attributes isn't unknown in my area but also i would maybe say not more expanded as i want, i don't mean the knowledge but the commitment to this. i would say that the big rate would do to the consideration of work as meal ticket.
Sometime as goal in live, sometime as a protection from the disappointment; because we came, as me, plenty of dreams that this organisation has a ggod reputation, famous sound and also famous and very known in our area or in the world as well ( all the company i worked before are multinationals) but despite that, when we attended and became involved within the organisation, we fall down so deep.

my cousin answred my question about his company that finaly we arrived to the conclusion that it is just a ticket meal! and trust me, my cousin is very high graduated and very hich competancy and vey ambition as well.

i asked you about the offshoring because during one chat that i got with one internal auditor, he was proud to tell me that in one country( i don't want to hurt anyone :) the people there are so dutfill and they've just used to do what he recommend even they don't inderstand !!!!! i was chocked by this view and i welcomed of him in my area because it is definitivly not submissive country :lol:
but i notify that the area where this person provided his recommendation, they registred several dismiss
to come back to my answer, i would say also and depending of the staff within the organisation, if they are a big rate of staff which were there since long time, even before the Quality "fashion" i would say, i will be hard to find such as commitment. why? because most of them got there interest, their grou's coalition... and also they said that as well as we got very good result even with our method, without your process oyur quality thing, why i would change my methode, and who are you to pretend to tell me what to do. the people who find more difficulties is the young persons , freshned graduated and very keen about the work... you know the song. laslty i was just asthonised about one of my coleague, she got at least 20 years in this company, she got the task to find out some data or whatever, when she discovered that she has to call one high manager, she stopped and refused to call him. and she replied to her boss the reason and he accepted !!!!! i was just blocked. and i inderstood why she was also blocked when she heard me to arguing hardy whith manager or anyone when i'm disagree. ( this kind of manner is common in French organisation)
see i don't to tell that this is a black picture here, sometimes when i found this kind of persons, i cannot just stand it :mad:
to come to your question of the stewardship principales, sometimes is perfect, sometimes is just to finish a matter and stick it to one in low position than us. i expect that even in your area, you can find this fact
hahha when i attended here, many tried to exercice these practice on me, they regret :tg:
does any boddy experienced the offshoring withi his company, i would be very interested by the top managment view about the local corporate culture in the offshoring area and how he work with ? :thanx:

The ISO standarts is so smart the put the commitment to the top managment in the front of responsability, because i experienced 2 differents commitments above the local staff and in my area, and the result is definitivly different. this is why, i would ask again, even the company is seeking of just its benefits, where to establish a healty corporate culture can be against benefits ???????
 
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S

selena15

#19
Thanks Wes
i think that you was replying to me while i was answering to Graig and Steel :lol:.
don't care about the language issue, even i got my very own English:lmao:, i got no problem and also I’m enriching my vocabulary, just go ahead :DThank to taking care anyway :agree:
I’m totally agreed with you when you said that a negative womp among employees can have negative reflect on the positive womp among customers. Indeed, until now, few months after my dismiss from my previous job, I keep to talk about them saying "us" and use to say "you" about my current org! Which has no need to be commented, hasn't it?

I think that you read on my mind wes:lmao:

“Often, especially in countries other than the USA, there is a social structure (culture) which has a long tradition of making it nearly impossible for a person to move up in status…etc.” You would like to say that in USA, it is not common that a fear stop sharing information and provide employees of empowerment. How did you arrive to this level? I know that even there; profit and personal interest conduct sometimes its owner to exceed the limit of his act to achieve his goals!

it is individual managers, NOT the “company” who do not understand even though they may be aware of the consequences… but it is not possible to keep this behaviour undisclosed. Imagine that you have an organisation where there are many managers and if one has commensality or parasite behaviour, it would be visible, and often spurred and need to be shared. At least it should be like this if you want to make it common on the organisation. Otherwise, another manager who has behaviour has a better result and show indeed the weakness of the first method. Aren’t you agree?

It doesn’t matter whether the organization is a manufacturing plant or an entire country, the principle remains the same – when EVERYONE has an opportunity to advance, there is more motivation to stick around and work on that advancement instead of just waiting around for a chance to escape: I’m not quiet sure about the meaning of this?

And now as well as the internet and any information are available or at least known or we can study more, how anyone can keep data’s secrets or what ever? Because of the risk of to lose employees; in final even our knowledge won’t be enough to keep our status level!!!

The initiator if the low-ranking employee cannot have this possibility, even he got skill, a plan; knowledge, it is as in what ISO recommend for the QR, he should have enough responsibility and authority!

How to identify the symbiosis’ company during the interview?
it is not possible and also bad to change a job every time you meet a commensalit or parasite company. That can be shown as an instable person, isn’t it?

In instance, I had this problem lastly, when I changed my job.
During the interview, the manager ensured to me that there is no problem if I want to progress? That he’s encouraging the progress; that the result is the only point taking into count during the progress of employee. A few months later; nothing of this insurance is available!!

And more, how to discover the fear’s person, I mean that if you ask directly a person about something, they will surely answer, expand their response…etc are there any limit when they stop to answer?

The off shoring topic deserve of course totally another thread
I would issue it and invite you on it

:thanx: for this inreresting share
 
S

selena15

#20
something that i'm expecting and i'm curious about it !
as well as we was bought lastly by one symbiosis company and the actual org is look as the commensalysist one? i'm very curious to know how the 2 logic would react ? and who will win in final; because im expecting lot of barriers
what do you think ?
 
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