Corporate ethics revisited - Comments about the concept of corporate ethics

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#11
Just because others do it - is it right?

Greg B said:
Do folks have ethics because it's the right thing to do or because they are afraid of punishment if they get caught?

Wes,

Is this not the way we teach our children (to some degree)? They start to act in the wrong manner (unsafe practise or misbehave) and we discipline them so that they understand that it is wrong or dangerous. Will they not then think twice about repeating the action because of possible punishment? It is only as they grow and mature that they discover the reason behind the reprimands or discipline. This is a bit of a Pavlov Dog reaction isn't it?

Greg B
When I've had a snoot full of scotch, I've frequently remarked about my mom's comment when I wanted to do something egregiously stupid with the excuse, "Everybody's doing it, mom!"

Her response:
"Just because somebody jumps off a bridge, does that mean you should?"

She sure didn't say, "If you do that, I'll punish you." She appealed to my "common sense" (a theme from another thread) and I usually rethought my plan. (Note this doesn't mean I never did anything stupid, it just means I thought about it before I did it.)

Extrapolating: Roxane's acquaintance went through the thought process and made her decision. She evidently thought being a good citizen was more important than the "itch" on her conscience if she wasn't.

My mom and Pavlov: My mom and Deming had more in common - "remove fear!" When I did stuff right, it was not for fear of being caught if I did stuff wrong. I don't remember too many "NO! NO!" statements as much as an explanation that there was a safe alternate which I could choose to follow or suffer the consequences of the unsafe route. I remember some hard lessons when I found out mom was right more often than not. (bike ride down the tallest toboggan chute in the midwest is an early and painful memory)
 
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R

RosieA

#12
I think reading "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" helped me clarify my thinking about principles and ethics. It ought to be a graduation requirement in all of our schools.

Unless people focus on, and clarify their core values and beliefs, like Roxane's friend, I think most people act ethically out of fear.

Lately, as I've had to deal with poor quality from China, I've come to question the whole free market economy on which our economic system is based. My customer demands lower prices...we move stable processes and good jobs to other countries where the fully burdoned labor rate is $1.00 or less, the power grid is iffy and quality is a foreign concept. The US worker can't find a comparable job and his standard of living declines. How is this good for the economy? How can we call this kind of business decision ethical?
 
G

Greg B

#13
Rosie,

In 'The Seven Habits...' Covey speaks of the two ethics:
'Character Ethic' - Integrity, Humility, Fidelity, Temperance, Courage, Justice, Patience etc,
and the Post World War 1:
'Personanilty Ethic' - Public Image, Attitudes, Behaviours, Skills and techniques etc and this split into two paths:
Human and Public Relations (External) and the Postive Mental Attitude (Internal).

Do you think the later (Personaility Ethics) stems from the mediums of Radio, Film and Television? Since they offer false ideals (for a better word) whereby we no longer have to read and think about our Heroes and role models, as in pre WWI literature, and apply our ideals to them. Instead, we have the Hero publicly thrust upon us by Radio and Film. Is modern society more reliant on what they look and act like rather than being comfortable for who and what they truly are? Is Covey suggesting that individually we are one type of person yet in a crowd we are someone else (Mob Rules)?
I haven't read this book for ages but found a few copies in the library at work, a few months ago, and I'm slowly going thru it.

P.S
Wes, Covey seems to also disagree with my previous post and makes me think more about his strategy:eek:

Greg B
 
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#14
Wes Bucey said:
Do folks have ethics because it's the right thing to do or because they are afraid of punishment if they get caught?
Good discussion. :agree1:

Not or.... It should be and: "Folks have ethics because it's the right thing to do and because they are afraid of punishment if they get caught".

We've had our fair share of scandals over here too, and what strikes me the most is this: When a bunch of top exec's get caught with their hands in the cookie jar their first reaction seems to be pure astonishment. They don't even realize that they have been doing something wrong. Now, how is that possible?

Perhaps it is not so strange after all:

A (the major?) reason may be that they have lost their foothold on Terra Firma (Yes, the Giraffe's view), due to the fact that they too seldom set foot on it. They interact solely with "their own kind", loosing touch with the rest of society, and given time, their values and outlooks will differ a great deal from the rest of us. Are they afraid of being caught? I don't know, but maybe not. They are used to being in command, being right, not being questioned.

Thus, they don't consider what they do to be wrong, and are not afraid of being caught. Small wonder then, that they fall heavily when the media starts tearing them up.

/Claes
 
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Greg B

#15
Claes,

Excellent response, as usual, Claes. You are right with the AND....Now why didn't I pick that option? It would have saved me having to look up Mr Covey's book. Ah well...It is still good stimuli as it gets the blood going and the mind working.

Greg B
 
S

sal881vw

#16
The more things change the more they stay the same

Please excuse my bluntness......but......We as well have these same administrative diseases. In my country there are the so called social partners. We have had all sorts of goverment run companies, businesses and agencies that just have been operating on goverment subsides for the last 25 years. And in all of this time we are always being told to make sacrifices which we do. To add insult to injury the workforces are left idle.......now all of these companies are being re structered......(new buzz convenient word). So early retiring schemes to the tune of a hefty sum...that sets you up for life are being given......and the possiblility of a cushy job......All out of our hard earned taxes.
I know that the theme was "company ethics" ......but one cannot avoid tackling the root cause of all this.........and I say that it is lax in law enforcement in regards to how busnisses and countries for that matter, should be run to generate the common good.

We have a saying that goes .........the fish starts to stink from the head...
 

The Taz!

Quite Involved in Discussions
#17
This has been interesting to watch evolve. . . All responses are good.

What is the motivation to do wrong. . . Money? Power? Greed? Stupidity? Ego? Insensitivity?

Money - How much is enough?
Power - Over who or what? How much is enough?
Greed - How much is enough?
Stupidity - Enough said there!
Ego - Who ya competing with?
Insensitivity - Do Unto Others. . . .

Just a random thought. . .

Is Corporate Ethics another new Oxymoron?
 
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Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#19
Wes Bucey said:
I came across this story today as I was researching material for my June 17 presentation on "Change Management = Culture Change."

. . .

I'm not looking for a poll. I'm looking for comments about the concept of corporate ethics.
A starter question:
Do folks have ethics because it's the right thing to do or because they are afraid of punishment if they get caught?
The following is only an excerpt, the full article is available at the link. This is a story that will probably disappear in a week or two - so, too, this thread will probably disappear, in even shorter time.
Amazing how prescient I was about how long the thread would last - two days! It essentially points out how quickly some topics, regardless of how pertinent they may be to our lives, lose interest for us when "the next new thing" comes along.

Ethics are important, but almost every single day brings a new report of some scandal caused when some politician or corporate executive decided his personal gratification, satisfaction, or just plain greed, was more important then "doing the right thing."

I think the worst part for me is that some of these guys have no more conscience about the wrong doing than a bunch of school kids playing a card game of Hearts, where the object is either to collect all the hearts and the Queen of Spades in one hand or to stick another player with singleton hearts and the Queen of Spades which count against the hand. Kids seem to have the same glee whether they win the game by amassing all the hearts and the Queen of Spades in one hand or if they gleefully stick another player with the Queen of Spades and force him to get 13 points deducted from his score.

(Seems like the same glee a crooked businessman gets when he amasses a huge fortune or when he sticks someone else with the blame.)
 
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Randy Stewart

#20
When I took over this department, one of the first things I put on the wall were my Core Values: Integrity, Quality, Customer Service, Respect for the Individual.
I hold myself accountable to each of these, I go over them each morning to keep them fresh. I am the only one that has to face myself in the mirror, I am the only one that knows if I have maintained or compromised my values. If I can look myself in the eyes and know, whole heartedly that I did my absolute best, then I have thrived through another day. If I can't then I need to do some soul searching.
I'm not perfect, I stumble, I fall and sometimes I just don't care. But I will know when those times are and my conscience will not allow me to blow it off. My core values are posted for all to see and thereby I am judged by how I comply or deny the stated values. To me, by stating and publishing what standard I choose to live by, I am less likely to forget it.
I think it was put this way, "If you don't stand for something, then you'll fall for anything".
I do not believe in "situational ethics", although situations may dictate how public my ethics are. It's not go with the flow, but more respect for others.
 
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