Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Management Review Meeting

[hogheavenfarm]

Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mngmnt Review Meeting

the requirement concerns a 'review' not necessarily a 'meeting' where everyone communicates together. In the 8 years I have been at this company, we have never had a management 'meeting', all of our reviews take place by email. We cover everything required and have records that we did discuss it.

 

[Ettore]

Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mgment Review Meeting

"As for my boss, he is a smart guy he is just close to retirement ..... he has a lot of technical knowledge about the product they make"

Oh God, it seems to be describing my life (your boss also has the mustaches?) Do not trust too !!!!!!!!!!! It does not involved you in the meeting. He takes your work merits. Your work is probably much more important than his work.
He has a lot of technical knowledge ...... ? Who said that? And the others what said about you?
You have to spend your life for those who appreciate your work, it esteems and involves you, not for those who cunningly takes the merits of your work.
Do not wait 27 years like me to receive the final surprise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Golfman25]

Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mngmnt Review Meeting

Sidney Vianna, your right I did post about procedures here. The thing is that the company didn't have procedures that covered 2008 requirements I fixed those and then finished off what they didn't have. Which I am still waiting for the 'approval' of the corporate QC manager.

What I didn't post about is my research into PED that I did because no one understood it. It is a tool that can benefit them and I lined out the whole process of starting it up with forms and work instructions. I never got a response on if we where going to move forward with it. I also have experience with APQP which would also benefit the CNC shop and sales. It's something they looked into in the past but had no one to drive it. So I set up work instructions and forms for the process only to have no idea what is going on with that project as well. I have written analysis on their customer care, returns to help them with setting reasonable goals. If I cannot be in the meeting how can I drive the fact that we do not have KPIs. That there is literally no upper management involvement in this system? I reviewed their most recent management review meeting, their minutes are minimal. They do not go over some key requirements, which I wanted to cover in this meeting. How do I cover that with top management if they don't want to hear from me?

If I can't get department leads to complete their corrective actions and I don't have upper management backing me how do I make progress? I am still young only have 10 years into quality yes I still have room to learn. Having everyone except for the quality Manager attend the quality meeting looks bad, looks very unsupportive. At least to me.

What I am frustrated about is the fact that I feel like they just want what will get them by. I feel like they keep things from me or do not address problems I bring up because they want the bare minimum. Which is fine, it's their company like you said but that's not how I work and I hate the feeling of not being backed. I probably would have already left if I didn't have my family to think about, the fact that my wife hasn't worked in 2 years and the crappy market.

Respectfully, I can see where this is a problem. You come in and propose a whole lot of forms and work instructions and push them on the company. Nobody likes forms and work instructions. The reason you don't have approval is your boss never looked at them -- who has that kind of time these days. I would strip it down to bare bones. Let your people tell you what forms and instructions are beneficial. Work with them. What do your fellow managers at your division think/do? Can they set their own KPIs? Why do you think you need hand holding from "corporate?" Make the division perform, make the "corporate" guys look good, and things will work out.

 

[Jen Kirley]

Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mgment Review Meeting

Lots of good responses so far.

I am not sure about how mature your organization's QMS is. In general, the less mature, the more comfort is found in having procedures. But it is true that people generally find procedures more of a burden than a help, so long as everyone knows what to do and does the correct thing consistently to arrive at customer satisfaction. As for the standard, as of 2015 it now says documented information will be used as required/appropriate for achieving customer satisfaction, with the exception of the specific clauses that cite a "shall" for it. In general, fewer procedures and forms are better... now it's about the risk of getting it wrong, isn't it? If your procedures are user-friendly and the sort that people will actually need and use, then lack of approval by QA Guy in VA could show up as nonconformities in a certifying audit. That wouldn't make him look very good, would it?

Meanwhile, the revised standard looks more like a business plan development document. If you have been setting up things to that paradigm, then your experience will be valuable whether you stick it out here or find a place where you feel part of the team.

The corporate QA guy you mention seems to have a position and voice of authority there, and is essentially "talking louder than you." Management seems to be inclined to take his word for it, but the standard does ask for top management to delegate responsibilities and themselves be held accountable. How have they done that with a QA Manager authority who is not present? It is very unusual for site lower tier documents to require corporate approval. Is he also expecting to "handle" the registration/transition audit?

It is also true that there's no requirement for in-person management reviews, but there is a requirement that reviews take place and the inputs/outputs can be accounted for with retained documented information. Maybe you can't be a member, but are you not able to review this documentation? That is, to help ensure the needed things happen for certification audits.

I have also felt frustrated in my career and found the only answer was for the source of my angst (person) to leave, or for me to leave. If you can do all the needed work within your power and then be prepared for the fallout when audit day comes, you might outlast his interference. Otherwise, you perhaps should just move on and shake the dust off your heels as you go, and leave him to do all this stuff as he seems wont to be immersed in so much detail.

Good luck. :

 

[PaulJSmith]

Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mngmnt Review Meeting

I have basically rewritten every document the company had and have implemented many many more.
...
When it comes to the QMS I have done everything to get it to its current state, it's what I was hired to do.

From my point of view, I think this is the first place you should look for problems. If you are doing it all yourself, you are basically imposing your way on the company. You'll never get buy-in or any sense of ownership this way from the people responsible for the tasks you've documented. Doing everything yourself may get it done in the short term, but it's setting you and the company up for failure in the long run ... which fruits I think you are starting to see already.

... I don't have upper management backing me ...

What I am frustrated about is the fact that I feel like they just want what will get them by.

This is a recipe for frustration, for sure. It's also a recipe for eventual failure. A good auditor will see right through this. If upper management isn't supporting this 100%, then you are probably wasting your time at this company (in my opinion, anyway ... I spent 4 years in a similarly unsupportive situation).

 

[bigqman]

Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mgment Review Meeting

Sigvar thank you for posting. I hear - and am familiar with - the heartache with upper management that does not see the value in participating in the QMS I would like. Curious - what is your relationship with your management peers - operational, sales, customer service, etc.? Is there leverage and / or insight to be gained by increasing connection with them?

 

[Sigvarr]

Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mgment Review Meeting

Jen,

thank you for your response the maturity of the companies QMS would be the sperm meeting the egg... Everyone is new to it, I don't have a single lead that knows the standard or have knowledge of the basics. I am starting from scratch with every project. We lost a sales manager due to demotion about halfway through my first year, they didnt replace him for several months. When they finally moved someone from one of the other businesses over she completely refused to work with me on ISO. After months of struggle they finally told her that she better get on board. The thing is they won't let me give documents to anyone until it's reviewed by QA then handed off to data entry to 'control' the file which I thought was OK and really have no problems with to this day.

Oh yes, he apparently talks to the owner almost every night... The reason why they are asking to review them is because they want to use them corporation wide, they used the documents to get another facility ISO certified already. The way he wrote the email is stating that they will go over everything but I will have no say in the meeting. If it at least seemed like I would have a voice even if they don't take my opinion it would be one thing but I'm not even getting that.

Yeah I have decided it's time to part ways just waiting to get a bite...

 

[Sigvarr]

Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mngmnt Review Meeting

From my point of view, I think this is the first place you should look for problems. If you are doing it all yourself, you are basically imposing your way on the company. You'll never get buy-in or any sense of ownership this way from the people responsible for the tasks you've documented. Doing everything yourself may get it done in the short term, but it's setting you and the company up for failure in the long run ... which fruits I think you are starting to see already.



This is a recipe for frustration, for sure. It's also a recipe for eventual failure. A good auditor will see right through this. If upper management isn't supporting this 100%, then you are probably wasting your time at this company (in my opinion, anyway ... I spent 4 years in a similarly unsupportive situation).

Ha! No I agree 100% I started with Sales when I first got hired, and that Manager at least acted like he wanted to work with me. He wasted months of my time by not being decisive then I was stuck with out a sales manager for about 4 so I started cleaning up quality.

I have been stripped of any sense of being a manager even though that is what I was hired as. Originally they told me that the owner has a thing about giving out management titles for legal reasons. OK cool I don't care what I am called I just want support when I need it, this is exactly what I said. Now I have a sales manager that doesn't respect me, the operations manager that clearly voiced her opinion on the fact that she wants nothing to do with ISO. Then a production manager that is all talk on supporting the importance of ISO...

I have been looking on and off last year, guess I will just hit it full force and hope I get a good bite.

Thank you for your response, has given me something to think about.

 

[Sigvarr]

Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mngmnt Review Meeting

Respectfully, I can see where this is a problem. You come in and propose a whole lot of forms and work instructions and push them on the company. Nobody likes forms and work instructions. The reason you don't have approval is your boss never looked at them -- who has that kind of time these days. I would strip it down to bare bones. Let your people tell you what forms and instructions are beneficial. Work with them. What do your fellow managers at your division think/do? Can they set their own KPIs? Why do you think you need hand holding from "corporate?" Make the division perform, make the "corporate" guys look good, and things will work out.

Nah only thing that I have done is fix the procedures that didn't cover the full clause. It was his idea to review the documents, I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is no answer at all even after reminders. Tell me no it won't work, OK I will try something else. Tell me it doesn't fit our busoness, OK how would it? Give me some info on why you have asked to review documents but do not respond to some of them at all.

My twin in another company has the same problem with him responding to emails. Hell production, sales, and operations have all expressed frustration due to him not responding to them....

 

[Jen Kirley]

Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mgment Review Meeting

Quite awhile back I moved from an advanced technician-level position in a mature QMS/EMS/OHSAS organization, to a family-owned small business whose leadership had decided it was time to bring in an inspector/Safety Officer who also understood chemical handling. The experience was like a professional lobster dip. I was there to inspect product under direction of the President (owner), do site safety inspections and report same to the President (owner), and "other duties as assigned."

Pretty soon I was asked "Do you mind helping with cleaning these parts before inspecting them?"and before you know it, I was doing that more than my regular work.

I did the safety inspections and reported as instructed, but was rarely heeded.

I tried to offer suggestions, such as "How about if we mark the material so we know what it is?" but this was deemed too much effort - until they lost a copper billet worth $8,000 in 1998 dollars. Then they put identification on the copper billets.

I lasted there four years. I felt like I needed counseling after that. I had gotten ASQ CQI and CQT by now, but realized that though they wanted a quality engineer, I would never have authority there. They wanted ... someone else. I later heard they brought in a CQE and that he had basically the same experience I had had. He lasted for a dignified amount of time too, then left.

I can't speak to your specific circumstance; only you truly know all the factors. I can only relate that there are times you really do just have to look out for number one. We can't control what others do, but we can (usually) control how we feel and how we respond.

Good luck to you.