Correction vs. Corrective Action - Differences

S

Stanpro01

#1
Hi folks, long time listener, first time caller....

I couldn't find anything on this, so I thought I'd ask you experts.

Concerning ISO 9001-2008, para 8.2.2, Internal Audits:

"...shall ensure that any necessary corrections and corrective actions..."

Are corrections and corrective actions two separate animals?

My auditor said he would write up his findings as corrections, and I could determine whether to make them corrective actions or leave them as corrections. When questioned, he stated that corrections are for minor issues to just fix and don't need "corrective action".
On these issues, we were definately not in conformance with the level 2 procedures, so I'm not arguing whether they are nonconformities, I have just never considered corrections and corrective actions separate before now.

Thoughts?
Thanks in advance for any guidance!
 
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A

alspread

#2
Re: Correction vs. Corrective Action

Welcome to the Cove!

One interpretation I heard was that 'corrections' were the fixes you did to fix the immediate problem ( fix the form, part, record, etc.) and 'corrective action' was the fix you did to prevent it from happening again (train, revise procedure, etc.).
 
Q

QCAce

#3
I would say that your auditor is correct in that not all corrections would necessarily require full corrective action. It can be a gray area for sure, but it is good to be flexible.

Our corrective action procedure has a statement something like, 'corrective actions will be created for significant or repeated events...'

Remember that good data collection is always a good 'fall back' position. If you deam something a minor nonconformity that only requires correction, and then future data shows it occuring again and again....then it is probably time to raise it to a full corrective action.
 

Pancho

wikineer
Super Moderator
#4
Hi folks, long time listener, first time caller....

I couldn't find anything on this, so I thought I'd ask you experts.

Concerning ISO 9001-2008, para 8.2.2, Internal Audits:

"...shall ensure that any necessary corrections and corrective actions..."

Are corrections and corrective actions two separate animals?

My auditor said he would write up his findings as corrections, and I could determine whether to make them corrective actions or leave them as corrections. When questioned, he stated that corrections are for minor issues to just fix and don't need "corrective action".
On these issues, we were definately not in conformance with the level 2 procedures, so I'm not arguing whether they are nonconformities, I have just never considered corrections and corrective actions separate before now.

Thoughts?
Thanks in advance for any guidance!
The definitions that we use are:

  • Correction: immediate fix, scrap, waiver or rework to address a Non-Conformance.
  • Containment: identifying, locating and segregating NC product to prevent its use.
  • Corrective Action: Modification of the relevant process to eliminate root causes of NCs and thereby prevent their recurrence.
Correction does not involve a change in the process. Corrective Action usually does.

The procedure to handle NCs required by ISO 9001 section 8.3 involves the first two of the above. The action required by section 8.5.2 to eliminate the causes of NCs involves the third.

Hope this helps!
Pancho
 
S

Stanpro01

#5
Correction does not involve a change in the process. Corrective Action usually does.


I suppose that is exactly my "foggy area".
8.5.2 says corrective actions shall be appropriate to the effects of the nonconformities encountered.
I have always applied that to mean if it were a relatively minor issue (and I get to decide), the corrective action taken did not need to be a full-blown 8-D. Perhaps get the assemblers together, explain what went wrong and how not to do it again. Document that and I'm done. Other times a fishbone or maybe an 8-D might be appropriate. I still get to decide.
So ultimately, a nonconformance is a nonconformance. I get to decide what action to take. But in my original scenario, it seems the auditor is telling me what action to take.

To all who have responded, thanks for your time (and patience...lol)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#6
Hi folks, long time listener, first time caller....

I couldn't find anything on this, so I thought I'd ask you experts.

Concerning ISO 9001-2008, para 8.2.2, Internal Audits:

"...shall ensure that any necessary corrections and corrective actions..."

Are corrections and corrective actions two separate animals?

My auditor said he would write up his findings as corrections, and I could determine whether to make them corrective actions or leave them as corrections. When questioned, he stated that corrections are for minor issues to just fix and don't need "corrective action".
On these issues, we were definately not in conformance with the level 2 procedures, so I'm not arguing whether they are nonconformities, I have just never considered corrections and corrective actions separate before now.

Thoughts?
Thanks in advance for any guidance!
From ISO 9000:

Correction: action to overcome a nonconformance.

Corrective action: action taken to overcome the CAUSE of a nonconformance.
 

harry

Super Moderator
#7
Perhaps these will be clearer:

3.6.4 preventive action
action to eliminate the cause of a potential nonconformity (3.6.2) or other undesirable potential situation
NOTE 1 There can be more than one cause for a potential nonconformity.
NOTE 2 Preventive action is taken to prevent occurrence whereas corrective action (3.6.5) is taken to prevent recurrence.

3.6.5 corrective action
action to eliminate the cause of a detected nonconformity (3.6.2) or other undesirable situation
NOTE 1 There can be more than one cause for a nonconformity.
NOTE 2 Corrective action is taken to prevent recurrence whereas preventive action (3.6.4) is taken to prevent occurrence.
NOTE 3 There is a distinction between correction (3.6.6) and corrective action.

3.6.6 correction
action to eliminate a detected nonconformity (3.6.2)
NOTE 1 A correction can be made in conjunction with a corrective action (3.6.5).
NOTE 2 A correction can be, for example, rework (3.6.7) or regrade (3.6.8).
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
Hi folks, long time listener, first time caller....<snip>
Correction is a task, or an action to set a thing correct cause it has gone wrong. Like a child is writing with a pencil and a word has gone wrong and so CORRECTION is done with the eraser and the CORRECT word is written and its done. Its just a DO IT task.
Now Corrective action is a process, or a set of activities that involves a study of data, making assessment / judgement and determining the rootcause so that this determined root cause can be minimized or eliminated. Like a child is writing with a pencil and seems to go wrong with many words and hence spending time more in CORRECTING than WRITING. The child cannot by himself take this action. It needs a corrective action to be taken up by the teacher or parent with the child involved.
Similarly correction can be taken up by the lower level personnel, say the operators., but corrective action which is a process has to be taken up by the higher level personnel, say the manager or supervisor and this process has to involve the operator.
 

Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted Information Resource
#9
.....Similarly correction can be taken up by the lower level personnel, say the operators., but corrective action which is a process has to be taken up by the higher level personnel, say the manager or supervisor and this process has to involve the operator.
While I dont completely disagree with your last couple of phrases, certain points I would like to put across. Corrective action also includes some of the improvement activities, aka Kaizen, carried out in the shop floor by the Operators themselves. I have come across situation where small changes/modifications done by the Operators kill a problem once and for all. Apparently, they are the one closely associated with the value-added Manufacturing process more than anybody else in a Organization.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#10
Correction is a task, or an action to set a thing correct cause it has gone wrong. Like a child is writing with a pencil and a word has gone wrong and so CORRECTION is done with the eraser and the CORRECT word is written and its done. Its just a DO IT task.
Now Corrective action is a process, or a set of activities that involves a study of data, making assessment / judgement and determining the rootcause so that this determined root cause can be minimized or eliminated. Like a child is writing with a pencil and seems to go wrong with many words and hence spending time more in CORRECTING than WRITING. The child cannot by himself take this action. It needs a corrective action to be taken up by the teacher or parent with the child involved.
Similarly correction can be taken up by the lower level personnel, say the operators., but corrective action which is a process has to be taken up by the higher level personnel, say the manager or supervisor and this process has to involve the operator.
I like your analogy. I would be careful though not to sell short the potential input from workers at the level of the problem to help come up with the long term solution. They are the expert at their job. As soon as you move three feet away from the work station, you are no longer an expert.
 
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