Corrective Action against Customer Complaints

G

glenn0004

#1
Past help has been gratefully received, so here we go again:

We currently record any customer complaint against a defined set of categorise “Key Nature of Complaint” – what I would like to instigate is a link between “Key Nature of Complaint” and a conflict in requirements of the ISO 9001 standard - hence helping with analysis.

We have one “Key Nature of Complaint” listed as “Engineers - Contractual call out time frames not adhered to” and another listed as “Parts delivery - Unable to supply parts”

Could anybody suggest appropriate conflicts in requirements of the ISO 9001 standard?
 
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G

glenn0004

#3
1st objective - identify key processes that have failed
2nd objective - does the complaint represent a conflict with an ISO 9001 requirement.

What I want to identify from the samples given is would “Key Nature of Complaint” listed as “Engineers - Contractual call out time frames not adhered to” represent a conflict with requirement for the control of Non-Conforming Product, given that our product is a service level agreement or would this be a conflict with the requirements for the measurement of product ....or a simple failure in the planning of product realisation....

Hope this helps
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
1st objective - identify key processes that have failed
2nd objective - does the complaint represent a conflict with an ISO 9001 requirement.

What I want to identify from the samples given is would ?Key Nature of Complaint? listed as ?Engineers - Contractual call out time frames not adhered to? represent a conflict with requirement for the control of Non-Conforming Product, given that our product is a service level agreement or would this be a conflict with the requirements for the measurement of product ....or a simple failure in the planning of product realisation....

Hope this helps
This seems like another instance of two people arguing about whether a carnivorous reptile is an alligator or crocodile while they're being eaten by it. It doesn't matter much what you call a failure mode; what you call it doesn't affect the actual nature of the thing. The customer didn't get what was expected. Now the questions are:
  • Are there documented requirements that were not fulfilled?
  • If so, are the requirements reasonable--is the process capable of fulfilling them consistently?
  • If there are no documented requirements that address the problem(s), should there be?
If your process objectives are clear, and they're based on customer requirements and the requirements of the standard, it should also be clear if there's a nonconformity. If the requirements say that in a given situation you must do x and you do y or fail to do x, you know where to hang the NC. What I'm getting at here is that when there is a question as to whether or not a thing is a nonconformity, it means that the requirements aren't clear or don't actually exist.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
Here's what ISO 9001 says in 8.5.2:

A documented procedure shall be established to define requirements for
a) reviewing nonconformities (including customer complaints),


Customer complaint = Nonconformity so ya gotta at least review them regardless of what you label 'em

And all the other stuff from "b" to "f" is relevant too
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#6
Here's what ISO 9001 says in 8.5.2:

A documented procedure shall be established to define requirements for
a) reviewing nonconformities (including customer complaints),


Customer complaint = Nonconformity so ya gotta at least review them regardless of what you label 'em

And all the other stuff from "b" to "f" is relevant too
A customer complaint is not a nonconformity unless it involves non- fulfillment of a requirement. The wording of "a" is bad, but it means that customer complaints must be reviewed. That is unless ISO 9001 is using something other than the normative definition of "nonconformity."
 

somashekar

Staff member
Admin
#7
1st objective - identify key processes that have failed
:applause: The root cause analysis
2nd objective - does the complaint represent a conflict with an ISO 9001 requirement.
:( ISO requirements help to align business process. For any and every complaint that needs appropriate resolution, I see no necessity to cross check with ISO requirements. Your business needs complaint resolution.
 
#8
Past help has been gratefully received, so here we go again:

We currently record any customer complaint against a defined set of categorise ?Key Nature of Complaint? ? what I would like to instigate is a link between ?Key Nature of Complaint? and a conflict in requirements of the ISO 9001 standard - hence helping with analysis.

We have one ?Key Nature of Complaint? listed as ?Engineers - Contractual call out time frames not adhered to? and another listed as ?Parts delivery - Unable to supply parts?

Could anybody suggest appropriate conflicts in requirements of the ISO 9001 standard?
The biggest shortfall of your proposed approach is that you are trying to determine before hand which element of the standard was violated based on your categorization.

In truth, it will not always fall under the same requirement (element of the standard). Every case needs to be evaluated individually.

I suspect that greater familiarity with the standard (ISO 9001) may help.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Past help has been gratefully received, so here we go again:

We currently record any customer complaint against a defined set of categorise “Key Nature of Complaint” – what I would like to instigate is a link between “Key Nature of Complaint” and a conflict in requirements of the ISO 9001 standard - hence helping with analysis.

We have one “Key Nature of Complaint” listed as “Engineers - Contractual call out time frames not adhered to” and another listed as “Parts delivery - Unable to supply parts”

Could anybody suggest appropriate conflicts in requirements of the ISO 9001 standard?
glenn,

The nature of a nonconformity or complaint is the opposite of the requirement.

It does not matter if the requirement is undocumented (see clause 8.3 and the ISO 9000 definition of nonconformity).

Citing a product nonconformity against the clauses in a system standard is not done. First, you have to determine where in the system are the root causes.

Root causes in the system can then be linked to clauses in the standard. A product nonconformity or customer complaint cannot be linked to the standard until you complete the problem solving to stop recurrence.

For example:

Service delivered too early or too late - may be due to poor planning (7.1), poor training in the Sat Nav (6.2.1) and/or poor contract review and acceptance (7.2.2)

Parts not available - may be due to poor supplier selection (7.4.1), poor planning (7.1) and/or lack of customer focus (5.2)

Hope this helps,

John
 
Last edited:
G

GoKats78

#10
We did analysis..after the corrective action investgation was complete to determine:


A) What process failed; and
B) Into what "Category" the failure fit
1. Failure Mode not identified on PFMEA
2. PCP (Process Control Plan) Not sufficient
3. PCP Not Executed - Competency (Not Trained)
4. PCP Not Executed - Failure to Execute (Just didn't do it....)
 
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