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Corrective Action (CA) vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA)

kedarg6500

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
dear folks

I know there are million questions regarding CAPA.
I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on this.

Let us take example in one of RCA exercise, a Corrective Action was found out. If we implement Corrective Action in similer component group, can we call it as Preventive Action.
If yes what treatment/ we should call for if Preventive Action from earlier RCA exercise being implemented for similer component group.


Kedar
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA)

dear folks

I know there are million questions regarding CAPA.
I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on this.

Let us take example in one of RCA exercise, a Corrective Action was found out. If we implement Corrective Action in similer component group, can we call it as Preventive Action.
Yes.

If yes, what treatment/ we should call for if Preventive Action from earlier RCA exercise being implemented for similer component group.
Same, Preventive Action

Stijloor.
 
D

David DeLong

#3
Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA)

I agree with Stijloor 100%
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA)

If the system is that of ISO/TS then it is still a corrective action

8.5.2.3 Corrective action impact
The organization shall apply to other similar processes and products the corrective action, and controls implemented, to eliminate the cause of a nonconformity.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA)

If the system is that of ISO/TS then it is still a corrective action
Howard,

I have to respectfully disagree with you. Any action taken to prevent a nonconformity is a preventive action. The unwanted situation or condition has not occurred yet.


Stijloor.
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#6
Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA)

Howard,

I have to respectfully disagree with you. Any action taken to prevent a nonconformity is a preventive action. The unwanted situation or condition has not occurred yet.


Stijloor.
I agree with this as I understand it. A corrective action is taken to remedy something that is known to be deficient.

If that action is repeated in an appropriate area that has not been found to be deficient, this extended effort is a preventive action for that area. It becomes a matter of learning from mistakes, an excellent endeavor. :2cents:
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#7
Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA)

I agree with this as I understand it. A corrective action is taken to remedy something that is known to be deficient.

If that action is repeated in an appropriate area that has not been found to be deficient, this extended effort is a preventive action for that area. It becomes a matter of learning from mistakes, an excellent endeavor. :2cents:
Please, let us not go here again. TS16949 is an exception. The passage Howard quoted clearly shows that under that standard, actions taken on other processes as a result of corrective action in another should not be considered preventive for purposes of distinguishing between corrective and preventive actions. I know it makes no sense, and no one dislikes the mindless corrective/preventive dichotomy more than me, but there it is.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA)

Please, let us not go here again. TS16949 is an exception. The passage Howard quoted clearly shows that under that standard, actions taken on other processes as a result of corrective action in another should not be considered preventive for purposes of distinguishing between corrective and preventive actions. I know it makes no sense, and no one dislikes the mindless corrective/preventive dichotomy more than me, but there it is.
Good points. Yes, I see ISO/TS 16949:2002, I see Howard's point, I see all contributors' points in this thread. Let's agree that whatever we do to prevent/correct problems is effort well worth it. Fair enough?

Thanks, you are all great. :applause:

Stijloor.
 

kedarg6500

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA)

I am of the same opinion as of Howard, but special thanks to hime for pointing to TS 16949: 8.5.2.3. as well as we can refer to CA implemented on similer process & product as "consequent corrective action".

More contribution are expected on this issue
 
M

madannc

#10
Just to add MHO...

Corrective Action as described is correct, the implementation of something to prevent recurrence.

And I am sure that Preventive Action has been described as the implementation of something to prevent occurrence.

That said, the grey lines have a vast opinion following... if product x non conforms the implemtentation of CA (straight forward) however if product y has the potential to to non conform but has not yet, and the implementation of the fix for poroduct x will reduce (or eliminate) the chance of the issue is this a PA?

As an example... I remember this from some training I had a long time ago... if a train fails to stop at a station due to brake failure, the CA is to replace the brakes more often on train "x", now train "y" has not failed to stop at station so is the change in frequency to brake changes for this considered a PA or extension of CA.

IMHO, it is a CA the non conformance of failing to stop at a station has occurred, this was the non conformance, and the train co. is merely exending the application of the CA to all of its fleet (if this is correct term for group of trains).

If the train company was monitoring the efficiency of its brakes and saw a trend showing that there was the potential for brakes to fail at 5 months and the schedule for change was 6 months, then implementing a change to replace brakes at 4 months would be a PA, the non conformance of failing to stop has not occurred.

All to often in real life I have seen these types of fixes addressed in projects, improvement tasks, supplier improvements, etc, and companies forget to include these in their PA process as the perception (still) is that pa's are linked to non conformance which is a bad thing.

not sure if this clarified but thought it would be good to add.
 
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