Corrective Action Trigger - Anyone have a list to share?

[Bob_M]

RCBeyette: That matrix is basically what I need to develop. I/we dont' want a list of every single nit pick item, but it may eventually turn into that.

mshell:
Customer complaints - similar - I have issued a CPAR for similar trends before (when I first revamp the program), but we don't have guidelines yet.

NC - LARGE scrap SHOULD open up a CPAR, but it didn't recently (brain fart on my part and more worried about ISO upgrade audit the next week), thus the need for guidelines and my BOSS's instruction to make some.

Vendor Problems - We do have a form to help track "problems", but again we don't have any firm metric to generate a CPAR. Typically/luckily most minor issues are covered over the phone in a few minutes. (Most are mis-labeled, minor shipping damage, RARE wrong item). Some issues have generated NC forms that were forwarded to supplier. One time occurances do not always need a BIG red flag. But we keep our eyes open for re-occurrances. We try not to over react to EVERY minor item, but instead the Purchaser and I keep tabs of repeated problems then act OFFICIAL. But we dont' have the triggers defined yet...

NonCompliance to QMS - HMMM - I haven't given this much thought, but some small issues have come up. The foreman and I will probably have to discuss this SOON.
------------
I guess our main problems is were still very little on METRICS and goals. Not just for CPAR, but for Management Review purposes as well. We are working on the "broader" goals/metrics, but for THIS WEEKS in need some for the NCMR program...

 

[Mike S.]

A formal CAR is always trigggered for any of the following at our place:

Defective material reaching the customer and the customer notifies us of same.

Rejected material detected in-house with value > $1000 in one occurrence.

Internal audit non-conformance.

Customer request for a formal CA even if no defective product is involved.

Any member of Management decides an issue is, in their opinion, serious enough to warrant formal CA.

 

[db]

Any member of Management decides an issue is, in their opinion, serious enough to warrant formal CA.

This is sooooo important. One thing we tend to try to keep management (or anyone else) from making decisions. This allows management to manage. Good Point, Mike

 

[Kevin Mader]

I think Mike's first contribution should be revisited. A peer review of problem, actual or potential, makes good sense. No doubt we have several problems in our organizations that warrant our attention, but with limited resources, which problems warrant our immediate attention? What can we handle and what must we handle?

I see a problem with trying to identify triggers by labels alone rather than using a process to determine which require actions and which do not. For instance, if your stable and predictable process yields .5% nonconforming product, would issuing a Corrective Action Request make sense every time a customer returns nonconforming product to you? It's the difference between 'common' and 'special' causes. If you react to a common cause, you run the risk of making matters worse, not better, while exhausting resources. It's also called 'tampering'.

Corrective Action's should mostly be taken to address 'special' causes. To know what a special cause is, you must have understanding of the process inputs and outputs. When addressing a common cause through a CA, the actions must be carefully considered and a delibrate action. Otherwise, you will make matters worse.

Expanding on Mike's first post, how many out there have decision making algorithms nested in their procedures? This, I think, will do an organization much better than lists. Should lists be band then? I don't think so, at least not without the establishment of the algorithm. However, as with most lists, they become constrictive in some situations, and unhelpful in others.

Great discussion folks!!

Kevin

 

[Bob_M]

Mike S: I just looked at my list I started, I had every one covered

DB: To funny

Kevin Mader: I don't disagree the program should have decision building into it, but my BOSS still WANTS some triggers on paper. I've tried to NOT over react to the minor problems and fix the big or potentially big one. But I let one big qty but low $$ production scrap slip thru the CPAR cracks (just nonconforming material paperwork was filled out and the parts were scrapped - root cause was poorly defined criteria that was left up to operator not specified by me or my predecessors - specifically we had LARGE burrs on a part that the operator thought was ok, but neither the foreman nor I did. We did not have a criteria determined to prevent the "bad" decision by the operator).
----------
My list so far:
In house Production: Abnormal Scrap/Defect quanties or $$ (to be determined); Rework Trends (rare);
Shipped: Customer rejects; Complaint trends; Customer Request;
Received: Vendor Issue Trends; Out of Spec Material (unusable);
General: External Audits NCs; Major Internal Audit NCs; General Managment requests for corrective/preventive actions; Mgmt Review recommendations; Not following QMS procedures;

Comments? Additional Suggestions?

 

[Bob_M]

OK this is what I just "added" to our Corrective and Prevetive Actions Procedure. Comments welcomed and wanted. Thanks Bob. (unapproved draft revision)

Slight wording changes in RED after re-reading...

4.0 FORMAL CPAR Trigger Examples
· Customer requests, product rejects/returns, and complaint trends;
· Suppliers providing Out of Specification (and unusable) product, and supply issue trends;
· Production departments creating abnormal amounts of scrap/defects (excluding normal setup, testing, and beginning/end of coil scrap), and rework trends;
· Quality system issues including: External Audit Non-Conformities, Major Internal Audit Non-Conformities, general management request for a formal CPAR, Management Review recommendations, deficiency or breakdown (or potential for) of the overall quality and/or business managements systems.
· Valid suggestions and/or complaints from ANY employee concerning the above issues as well any other problem or potential problems that may lead to non-conforming or negatively affect business.
·NOTE: These examples are not all inclusive. This short list has been generated as a guideline to assist the Quality Manager in determining which types of “triggers” normally require a formal CPAR.

 

[Rob Nix]

Bob,

Yours is similar to an E-mail I send weekly to all key personnel as a reminder. An excerpt is as follows:

1) Chronic (repeated) problems that irritate you.
2) Any situation where the customer is upset.
3) Vendors' repeated late deliveries or quality concerns.
4) Ideas to improve a present processes - to make them work
better.
5) Any concern where you would like to keep track of the
history of the changes (e.g. for before & after comparison).
6) Problems causing a delay in delivery of our products.

My standard answer to people who always complain about a constant problem (without following the CAR process) is, "That can't be true, it hasn't been reported".

 

[Bob_M]

My standard answer to people who always complain about a constant problem (without following the CAR process) is, "That can't be true, it hasn't been reported".

Good plain text for email reminders!

I love that response!

 

[RoxaneB]

Good plain text for email reminders!

I love that response!

I believe it was here in the Cove, where I "learned" the following:

If it moves, train it.
If it doesn't move, calibrate it.
If it isn't written down, it never happened.

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

My standard answer to people who always complain about a constant problem (without following the CAR process) is, "That can't be true, it hasn't been reported".

That is a crushing one liner, Rob. No recovery can be possible after a broadside like that.

If it isn't written down, it never happened.

I believe that one originated in astronomy... Astronomers don't get "repeat performances". Thus the rule: If it has not been recorded it never happened.

/Claes